X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao104.cox.net ([68.230.241.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3891965 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:35:58 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.42; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20091020043523.UKZZ14181.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:35:23 -0400 Received: from wills ([68.105.90.69]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id usbL1c0071VmpBY04sbN36; Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:35:22 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=FnFJ7A7Lwl4A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ekHE3smAAAAA:20 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=YrmIdGhKAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=XlWFGW-OvyXr40No3mUA:9 a=KRZCQ7hXFFpGIVIQhYMA:7 a=56YZC5iKR2niN9TWo4jdel5F_eAA:4 a=VJOXKkN81gcA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=tTY_T5tuuaZIsrGn:21 a=-X4UkNbL2DzzKCQU:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=zuL2eBFbb74iEl8HZCUA:9 a=1JjBffwzbnnYiMR7z88A:7 a=PmBFX72c_q2gupFFKDB8RRQH7TAA:4 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <6889EEA245334F19931561E36CA3719E@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:35:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010F_01CA5104.0F20B040" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010F_01CA5104.0F20B040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the delayed reply again. My bad for creating confusion with my = comment re stoich at full throttle. To clarify, stoich (as displayed on = my narrow band O2) at full throttle with the mixture knob centered, but = I can drive it off scale rich by turning the knob. Not sure if I can = richen it enough to bog the engine. Havent had an opportunity to go fly again and look any further into it. Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 5:35 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Stoich A/F Ratio?? : [FlyRotary] Re: where's the = missing power? Hi Mike, =20 I guess I'm missing something - If your mixture monitor shows stoich = at full throttle, then it's not solely an airflow problem - it appears = to me that it's the lack of sufficient fuel. IF you are at stoich 14.7:1 = A/F ratio then that means you have more oxygen available in your system = to support burning more fuel =3D more power. You should be able to = enrich the mixture particularly at full throttle (assuming you are = wanting full power at full throttle) to around 12.65:1 air/fuel ratio = for best power. I know you know all of this - that is why I am puzzled = by your statement that you feel it's an airflow problem when on the = surface with the Stoich ratio it would appear it's a lack of sufficient = fuel. =20 =20 =20 =20 Ed. =20 =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 11:22 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? =20 Sorry for my absence on a topic I started. My nephew had a = skateboarding accident last weekend and is in the hospital in a = chemically induced coma until his brain swelling is under control. And I = thought car powered airplanes were dangerous. Stay away from = skateboards. =20 Tracy - My mixture monitor shows stoich at full throttle. I suspect an = airflow issue rather than fuel. =20 Al - my vacuum gauge is located in the plenum directly behind the = throttle plates. =20 Lynn - I agree that the TB inlet is horrible and needs a bell mouth. = The inlet is also pretty obstructed by the cowl which isnt visible in = the pics I sent. I think I'll make an attempt to clean this up some and = see if it gets me anywhere. If not I'll live with it for a while. =20 Kelly - always tough to determine if the problem is an engine issue or = if the load is simply too much for the engine to overcome. I'm going to = experiment with the shallow dive several have suggested and see what = happens. =20 Mike ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? =20 Since you have the vacuum gauge, this article will help you use it = for troubleshooting. =20 http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2393/article.html =20 Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 7:22 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power? I dont have a regular manifold pressure gauge, just an industrial = type vacuum gauge ( I really gotta get an MP gauge). Anyway, the vacuum = gauge was indicating 4" of vacuum. =20 Where are you measuring the 4" vacuum? If it is near the ports it = is no unusual; if it is out before the runners; something is wrong. =20 Al __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_010F_01CA5104.0F20B040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry for the delayed reply again. My = bad for=20 creating confusion with my comment re stoich at full throttle. To = clarify,=20 stoich (as displayed on my narrow band O2) at full throttle with = the=20 mixture knob centered, but I can drive it off scale rich by turning the = knob.=20 Not sure if I can richen it enough to bog the engine.
 
Havent had an opportunity to go fly = again and look=20 any further into it.
 
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 = 5:35=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Stoich A/F = Ratio?? :=20 [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing power?

Hi=20 Mike,

 

I guess = I=92m missing=20 something - If your mixture monitor shows stoich at full throttle, = then it=92s=20 not solely an airflow problem =96 it appears to me that it=92s the = lack of=20 sufficient fuel. IF you are at stoich 14.7:1 A/F ratio then that means = you=20 have more oxygen available in your system to support burning more fuel = =3D more=20 power.   You should be able to enrich the mixture = particularly at=20 full throttle (assuming you are wanting full power at full throttle) = to around=20 12.65:1 air/fuel ratio for best power.  I know you know all of = this -=20 that is why I am puzzled by your statement that you feel it=92s an = airflow=20 problem when on the surface with the Stoich ratio it would appear = it=92s a lack=20 of sufficient fuel. 

 

 

 

Ed. =20

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A = N494BW Rotary=20 Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.r= otaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Thursday, October 15, = 2009 11:22=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = where's the=20 missing power?

 

Sorry for my absence on = a=20 topic I started. My nephew had a skateboarding accident last = weekend and=20 is in the hospital in a chemically induced coma until his brain = swelling is=20 under control. And I thought car powered airplanes were dangerous. = Stay away=20 from skateboards.

 

Tracy - My=20 mixture monitor shows stoich at full throttle. I suspect an airflow = issue=20 rather than fuel.

 

Al - my vacuum gauge is = located in=20 the plenum directly behind the throttle=20 plates.

 

Lynn - I agree=20 that the TB inlet is horrible and needs a bell mouth. The inlet is = also pretty=20 obstructed by the cowl which isnt visible in the pics I sent. I think = I'll=20 make an attempt to clean this up some and see if it gets me anywhere. = If not=20 I'll live with it for a while.

 

Kelly - always tough to = determine=20 if the problem is an engine issue or if the load is simply too much = for the=20 engine to overcome. I'm going to experiment with the shallow dive = several have=20 suggested and see what happens.

 

Mike

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Bill=20 Bradburry

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Tuesday, October 13, 2009 4:21 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: where's the missing=20 power?

 

Since you have the vacuum gauge, this = article will=20 help you use it for troubleshooting.

 

 http://autospeed.co= m/cms/A_2393/article.html

 

Bill B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, = 2009 7:22=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = where's the=20 missing power?

I dont have a regular = manifold=20 pressure gauge, just an industrial type vacuum gauge ( I really = gotta get an=20 MP gauge). Anyway, the vacuum gauge was indicating 4" of=20 vacuum.

 

Where = are you=20 measuring the 4=94 vacuum?  If it is near the ports it is no = unusual; if=20 it is out before the runners; something is=20 wrong.

 

Al



__________ Information from ESET = NOD32=20 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714)=20 __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 = Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

------=_NextPart_000_010F_01CA5104.0F20B040--