X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from exchange.carey.wa.edu.au ([58.6.19.155] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTPS id 3877625 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Oct 2009 08:39:15 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=58.6.19.155; envelope-from=stevei@carey.asn.au Received: from exchange.carey.local ([10.10.0.5]) by exchange.carey.local ([10.10.0.5]) with mapi; Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:38:36 +0800 From: To: Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:38:32 +0800 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Thread-Index: AcpGbTOwuUwaMa54QluyQBiGsOILdQA3eB7n Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US x-pmwin-version: 3.0.1.0, Antivirus-Engine: 2.90.1, Antivirus-Data: 4.45E Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C6F2ACC854D4steveicareyasnau_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C6F2ACC854D4steveicareyasnau_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Ed The header tank in a Glasair is immediately behind the firewall (Insulated)= and glassed into the fuse upper section immediately ahead of the windshiel= d. The header is approx 24" above the main wing tank. Are you suggesting then that if the header has no air leaks then the main p= ump suction could be used to draw fuel from main wing tank up into header a= nd delete the transfer pump? Steve Izett On 6/10/09 6:18 PM, "Ed Anderson" wrote: I don't really know, Steve. I do have a fiberglass box around the header = tank and pumps/filters with aluminum tape wrapped over it to shield from ra= diate heat. I also have a blast tube funneling air into the box. Early on during test phase when running auto fuel and doing power on stalls= (high power, low airflow), I notice the fuel pressure fluctuating and turn= ed on the 6 psi boost pump which eliminated the symptoms. I then installed= the box and blast tube and have had no more such symptoms. In hind sight, putting the header tank someplace other than forward of the = firewall would undoubtedly been a better plan. The pressure differential with just the EFI fuel pumps is sufficient to pul= l fuel up a 2 foot height and collapsed a heavy plastic marine fuel tank wh= en I once forgot to open it's vent during the phase I had the engine on a t= est stand. So the pressure differential is sufficient. The only thing tha= t would cause a problem is a air leak in the header tank, then I would be f= orced to use the boost pump to keep fuel flowing to land as the pressure di= fferential would be lost/weakened. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ definitefraudstart "members.cox.net"definitefraudend http://members.cox.net= /rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of stevei@carey.asn.au Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:36 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Thanks Ed How hot does fuel get as it gets pumped then through a hot engine cowl? The= lines are insulated under the cowl. How much heat do the pressure pumps in= troduce? Steve Izett On 6/10/09 9:03 AM, "Ed Anderson" wrote: Hi Steve, Just for comparison -my fuel system is very similar in concept. The princi= pal conceptual difference is I have a header tank for return of my fuel fro= m injectors mounted on the fire wall and is =BD pint in capacity. The theo= ry is not much fuel to have to get rid of if it gets hot. The fuel flow int= o the engine through the injectors continuously pulls cool fuel from wing t= anks. 8 gallons of hot fuel (if it ever got hot) might take a while to burn down= to the point the cool incoming fuel does some good. This size goes counter to "tradition" on size of header tanks but is more = in line with the "returnless" systems on most of today's automobiles. FWIW Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ definitefraudstart "members.cox.net"definitefraudend definitefraudstart "me= mbers.cox.net"definitefraudend http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/confi= gs.htm#N494BW <= definitefraudstart "members.cox.net"definitefraudend http://members.cox.net= /rogersda/rotary/configs.htm > http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Beh= alf Of stevei@carey.asn.au Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel System Hi All We are trying to make a decision re: fuel system. I've attached a PDF with design and questions etc. Could you please pull it to pieces, make recommendations? Steve Thomas can you comment also from the GSIIRG perspective? Thanks Steve Izett Perth Western Australia Building Glasair SIIRG Renesis 4 Port RD1C EC2 EM3 ________________________________ The contents of this email are confidential and intended only for the named= recipients of this e-mail. If you have received this e-mail in error, you = are hereby notified that any use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution = or the information contained in this e-mail is prohibited. Please notify th= e sender immediately and then delete/destroy the e-mail and any printed cop= ies. All liability for viruses is excluded to the fullest extent of the law= . __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- This message has been checked by ESVA and is believed to be clean. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- This message has been checked by ESVA and is believed to be clean. --_000_C6F2ACC854D4steveicareyasnau_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Thanks Ed

The header tank in a Glasair is immediately behind the firewall (Insulated)= and glassed into the fuse upper section immediately ahead of the windshiel= d.
The header is approx 24” above the main wing tank.
Are you suggesting then that if the header has no air leaks then the main p= ump suction could be used to draw fuel from main wing tank up into header a= nd delete the transfer pump?

Steve Izett


On 6/10/09 6:18 PM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:

I don’t really know, Stev= e.   I do have a fiberglass box around the header tank and pumps/= filters with aluminum tape wrapped over it to shield from radiate heat. &nb= sp;I also have a blast tube funneling air into the box.  
 
Early on during test phase when running auto fuel and doing power on stalls= (high power, low airflow), I notice the fuel pressure fluctuating and turn= ed on the 6 psi boost pump which eliminated the symptoms.  I then inst= alled the box and blast tube and have had no more such symptoms.
 
In hind sight, putting the header tank someplace other than forward of the = firewall would undoubtedly been a better plan.
The pressure differential with just the EFI fuel pumps is sufficient to pul= l fuel up a 2 foot height and collapsed a heavy plastic marine fuel tank wh= en I once forgot to open it’s vent during the phase I had the engine = on a test stand.  So the pressure differential is sufficient.  Th= e only thing that would cause a problem is a air leak in the header tank, t= hen I would be forced to use the boost pump to keep fuel flowing to land as= the pressure differential would be lost/weakened.
 
Ed
 
 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews, NC

eande= rson@carolina.rr.com

http:= //www.andersonee.com <http://w= ww.andersonee.com>

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> <= BR>
http:= //www.flyrotary.com/

definitefraudstart "members.cox.net&qu= ot;definitefraudend http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW <http:/= /members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm>

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.ne= t/mazda/index.html>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] <= B>On Behalf Of stevei@carey.asn.au<= BR> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 9:36 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System
Thanks Ed
How hot does fuel get as it gets pumped then through a hot engine cowl? The= lines are insulated under the cowl. How much heat do the pressure pumps in= troduce?

Steve Izett


On 6/10/09 9:03 AM, "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Steve,
 
Just for comparison -my fuel system is very similar in concept.  The p= rincipal conceptual difference is I have a header tank for return of my fue= l from injectors mounted on the fire wall and is ½ pint in capacity.=  The theory is not much fuel to have to get rid of if it gets hot. Th= e fuel flow into the engine through the injectors continuously pulls cool f= uel from wing tanks.
 
 8 gallons of hot fuel (if it ever got hot) might take a while to burn= down to the point the cool incoming fuel does some good.
 
This size  goes counter to “tradition” on size of header t= anks but is more in line with the “returnless” systems on most = of today’s automobiles.
 
FWIW
 
Ed
 

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews, NC

eande= rson@carolina.rr.com

http:= //www.andersonee.com <http://w= ww.andersonee.com>

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html <http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html> <= BR>
http:= //www.flyrotary.com/

definitefraudstart "members.cox.net&qu= ot;definitefraudend definitefraudstart "members.cox.net"definitef= raudend http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW <http://memb= ers.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW> <definitefraudsta= rt "members.cox.net"definitefraudend http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/c= onfigs.htm <http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm> >

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm <http://www.dmack.ne= t/mazda/index.html>=20


From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net] On Behalf Of stevei@car= ey.asn.au
Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 7:35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel System

Hi All

We are trying to make a decision re: fuel system.
I’ve attached a PDF with design and questions etc.
Could you please pull it to pieces, make recommendations?
Steve Thomas can you comment also from the GSIIRG perspective?

Thanks

Steve Izett
Perth Western Australia
Building Glasair SIIRG Renesis 4 Port RD1C EC2 EM3


The contents of this email are confidential = and intended only for the named recipients of this e-mail. If you have rece= ived this e-mail in error, you are hereby notified that any use, reproducti= on, disclosure or distribution or the information contained in this e-mail = is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately and then delete/destroy= the e-mail and any printed copies. All liability for viruses is excluded t= o the fullest extent of the law.


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
-- This message has been checked by ESVA and is believe= d to be clean.



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signatur= e database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
-- This message has been checked by ESVA and is believe= d to be clean.

--_000_C6F2ACC854D4steveicareyasnau_--