X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3877469 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:43:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924451738AA for ; Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:43:10 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 827E0BEC013 for ; Wed, 7 Oct 2009 15:43:09 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: <74955844A2AE4BD2A252263834220298@ownerf1fc517b8> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Balls and Springs Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:43:10 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01CA4775.A3419390" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 091006-0, 10/06/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CA4775.A3419390 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lynn, With balancing my single rotor, what would you suggest that I allow ( = percentage wise) for oil weight in the rotor - it was suggested to me = that I should allow full rotor oil weight. This discussion suggests otherwise. George ( down under) George, I certainly am not an expert, just relaying my findings from those who = do have a lot of knowledge regarding these engines. On that note, as I = have become more involved with this engine and its=92 aviation = application, I find that much advice comes from the racers. I=92m = certainly not knocking that either, but sometimes you have to remind = them that you=92re not looking for racetrack performance. It=92s more = about reliability (at least for me). So, I=92m not saying that leaving the ball/springs in is the only way = to go. Just that it=92s not mandatory to remove them. If I read Lynn=92s later response correctly, he seemed to indicate = that in our application, this mod would likely not make a difference. And Lynn, if I misinterpreted your excellent explanation of the whole = Mazda warm up scheme, please let me know. Further, please don=92t think I=92m in any way knocking the racing = crowd, because they contribute enormously to our challenge. Bryan Don't worry about racing performance from the airplane installation. = Nobody even dynos below 6,000 RPM. So here is a dyno sheet that is as = low as I have ever seen. This engine has a very short intake that is = tuned for 9,000 + RPM. But still respectable at even 6,500 RPM where you = could use it in an airplane.=20 EGT probes are 3" out from the ports. A properly assembled engine will tolerate an alarming amount of abuse = and continue to perform normally.=20 Support systems that are common to any auto power installation are = most likely to cause any problems.=20 On the balance question, the rotors are so heavy and move in such = small orbits that the weight of oil missing from one or the other is not = detectible to the pilot, as it is such a small percentage of the rotor weight. A badly out of balance rotary is smoother than a well = balanced piston engine. In normal operation, braking retains more oil in = the front rotor, and dumps more oil from the rear rotor, and nobody = notices that. Same in a climb. Nobody has noticed any imbalance yet. I = left piston engined race cars in 1980 based on the cost of exploded = engines.=20 Lynn E. Hanover -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01CA4775.A3419390 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 Lynn,
With balancing my single rotor, what = would you=20 suggest that I allow ( percentage wise) for oil weight in the rotor - = it was=20 suggested to me that I should allow full rotor oil weight.
This discussion suggests = otherwise.
George ( down under)

George,

 

I certainly = am not an=20 expert, just relaying my findings from those who do have a lot of = knowledge=20 regarding these engines.   On that note, as I have become = more=20 involved with this engine and its=92 aviation application, I find that = much=20 advice comes from the racers.  I=92m certainly not knocking that = either,=20 but sometimes you have to remind them that you=92re not looking for = racetrack=20 performance.  It=92s more about reliability (at least for=20 me).

So, I=92m = not saying=20 that leaving the ball/springs in is the only way to go.  Just = that it=92s=20 not mandatory to remove them.

 If I read = Lynn=92s=20 later response correctly, he seemed to indicate that in our = application, this=20 mod would likely not make a difference.

 And Lynn, = if I=20 misinterpreted your excellent explanation of the whole Mazda warm up = scheme,=20 please let me know.

 Further, = please don=92t=20 think I=92m in any way knocking the racing crowd, because they = contribute=20 enormously to our challenge.

Bryan
 
 
 
Don't worry = about=20 racing performance from the airplane installation. Nobody even dynos = below=20 6,000 RPM. So here is a dyno sheet that is as low as I have ever seen. = This=20 engine has a very short intake that is tuned for 9,000 + RPM. But = still=20 respectable at even 6,500 RPM where you could use it in an airplane.=20
EGT probes = are 3" out=20 from the ports.
 
A properly = assembled=20 engine will tolerate an alarming amount of abuse and continue to = perform=20 normally.
Support = systems that=20 are common to any auto power installation are most likely to cause any = problems.
 
On the = balance=20 question, the rotors are so heavy and move in such small orbits that = the=20 weight of oil missing from one or the other is not detectible to the = pilot, as=20 it is such a small percentage of the rotor
 weight. A badly=20 out of balance rotary is smoother than a well balanced piston engine. = In=20 normal operation, braking retains more oil in the front rotor, and = dumps more=20 oil from the rear rotor, and nobody notices that. Same in a climb. = Nobody has=20 noticed any imbalance yet. I left piston engined race cars in 1980 = based on=20 the cost of exploded engines.
 
Lynn E.=20 Hanover

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Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:  =20 = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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