X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from securemail.ever-tek.com ([64.129.170.194] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3874611 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:17:44 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@bellairepolice.com Return-Path: cbarber@bellairepolice.com Received: from fcd-mail05.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([172.16.5.24]) by FCD-MAIL03.FCDATA.PRIVATE with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Oct 2009 04:17:13 -0500 Received: from fcd-mail05.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([4.4.5.9]) byfcd-mail05.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([4.4.5.9]) with mapi; Mon, 5 Oct 2009 04:17:06-0500 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 04:17:05 -0500 From: Chris Barber Subject: Seepage, no more. Oil system To: FlyRotary Thread-Topic: Seepage, no more. Oil system Thread-Index: AQHKRZydZyImHVAn80WyFObkL/eMYg== Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Oct 2009 09:17:13.0697 (UTC) FILETIME=[A01D4D10:01CA459C] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D0F749463E0EF646B3946A4248B3C86A020D4135E7fcdmail05FCDA_" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_000_D0F749463E0EF646B3946A4248B3C86A020D4135E7fcdmail05FCDA_ Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Last night I re-made the burst hose. Then I made a new hose that complete= ly bypassed/eliminated the front oil cooler from the oil cooling equation= =2E I reinstalled the burst hose with a very slightly different routing a= nd moved the oil filter mount about 1/2 inch to relieve strain that may h= ave been present. I got everything plumbed back together last night, with= the front oil cooler out of the mix, but due to rain could not crank her= up (I didn't want to get my hanger mates Long-EZ drenched) last night. Tonight I returned, topped off the oil, pushed the plane onto the ramp an= d fired her up. I let her idle a while, then pushed her to WOT. Oil press= ure was about the same as before at around 30 psi at lower idle (1400/150= 0 rpm) and around 75 psi at full bore (about 6000+ rpm). Shut down, got o= ut for the inspection and there is NO sign of seepage around the oil filt= er. Temps were about the same as before with the oil temp being 20-30 deg= rees over coolant. Will hopefully get to re-test tomorrow. NOW for my next step. As has been mentioned here, using oil to a front oi= l cooler is less than ideal. Velocity uses it in their stock Lycoming ins= tallations since they do not have a water/coolant option. However, we do. My question to the collective is; would it be acceptable to use the aviat= ion oil cooler that is already installed in conjunction with my currant w= ater coolant system. My thinking is that an oil cooler, if I understand c= orrectly, is more "durable" and able to withstand more pressure than the = standard water radiator. Of course, there may be reasons other than press= ure that would factor in, I just don't know them. IIRC, oil pressure has been up to 75 psi, whereas stock coolant pressure = caps are at about 13 and some in our uses some use 21psi caps. Thus, seem= ingly, this stock aviation cooler should be up to the task of being plumb= ed into my coolant system to provide heat for the cabin. I would think, p= erhaps in errors, that it should be at least as durable as a standard hea= ter core. It would save a nice bit of time not having to redo the glass a= nd plumbing at the front of the plane. I would like, in an ideal world, t= o remove the oil cooler from then nose, flush it and reinstall as a water= radiator. If this is deemed acceptable, the plumbing at the firewall back (pusher, = ya know) should be pretty straight forward. I will have to put some thoug= ht into which water ports would be best to use without sacrificing my cur= rently nicely operating coolant system. My first thought is to use the po= rts that are designed for heating use by Mazda. I recall the out going po= rt is the one on the left (plug side) rear of the engine, but memory fail= s me as to where the heater line returns to the engine. I have a second g= en turbo block. On John Slade's port identification page it shows a retur= n port on what looks like the lower water pump with a turbo water port ab= ove it, however, this is not the same on mine. I do have a port in a some= what simular place, but it does not look much like Johns (which is a 3rd = gen), IIRC. I am curious as to how this will affect my current routing of= hoses which seems to be working. Of course, this may not be the correct route. Perhaps I should install th= e 3rd gen oil cooler where the aviation one is now and just bite the bull= et on the glass work and pluming while still using oil...or, buy an actua= l heater core and use water. Donno, yet...kinda thinking out loud and sol= iciting suggestions. All that being said, my friend David Staten mentioned this to me back in = the day, that the aviation oil cooler may be a problem. At the time I rem= ember saying "lets stick to the plans". Well, looks as if David was right= =2E He is a smart guy and even though he bowed out of the project ages ag= o, his insight is still sought and appreciated. Steel sharpens steel. All the best, Chris Barber Houston Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous e= -mails attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legal= ly privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person respon= sible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notifie= d that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the informa= tion contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED= =2E If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately n= otify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy the original transmissi= on and its attachments without reading them. Thank you. --_000_D0F749463E0EF646B3946A4248B3C86A020D4135E7fcdmail05FCDA_ Content-Type: text/html;charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Last night I re-made the burst hose. Then I made a new hose that compl= etely bypassed/eliminated the front oil cooler from the oil cooling equat= ion. I reinstalled the burst hose with a very slightly different routing = and moved the oil filter mount about 1/2 inch to relieve strain that may have been present. I got everything plum= bed back together last night, with the front oil cooler out of the mix, b= ut due to rain could not crank her up (I didn't want to get my hanger mat= es Long-EZ drenched) last night.

 

Tonight I returned, topped off the oil, pus= hed the plane onto the ramp and fired her up. I let her idle a while, the= n pushed her to WOT. Oil pressure was about the same as before at around = 30 psi at lower idle (1400/1500 rpm) and around 75 psi at full bore (about 6000+ rpm). Shut down, got out for the in= spection and there is NO sign of seepage around the oil filter. Temps wer= e about the same as before with the oil temp being 20-30 degrees over coo= lant.

Will hopefully get to re-test tomorrow.

 

NOW for my next step. As has been mentioned= here, using oil to a front oil cooler is less than ideal. Velocity uses = it in their stock Lycoming installations since they do not have a water/c= oolant option. However, we do.

My question to the collective is; would it = be acceptable to use the aviation oil cooler that is already installed in= conjunction with my currant water coolant system. My thinking is that an= oil cooler, if I understand correctly, is more "durable" and able to withstand more pressure than the st= andard water radiator. Of course, there may be reasons other than pressur= e that would factor in, I just don't know them.

 

IIRC, oil pressure has been up to 75 psi, w= hereas stock coolant pressure caps are at about 13 and some in our uses s= ome use 21psi caps. Thus, seemingly, this stock aviation cooler should be= up to the task of being plumbed into my coolant system to provide heat for the cabin. I would think, perhaps in errors, = that it should be at least as durable as a standard heater core. It would= save a nice bit of time not having to redo the glass and plumbing at the= front of the plane. I would like, in an ideal world, to remove the oil cooler from then nose, flush it and re= install as a water radiator.

 

If this is deemed acceptable, the plumbing = at the firewall back (pusher, ya know) should be pretty straight forward.= I will have to put some thought into which water ports would be best to = use without sacrificing my currently nicely operating coolant system. My first thought is to use the ports that are = designed for heating use by Mazda. I recall the out going port is the one= on the left (plug side) rear of the engine, but memory fails me as to wh= ere the heater line returns to the engine. I have a second gen turbo block. On John Slade's port identification pag= e it shows a return port on what looks like the lower water pump with a t= urbo water port above it, however, this is not the same on mine. I do hav= e a port in a somewhat simular place, but it does not look much like Johns (which is a 3rd gen), IIRC. I am cu= rious as to how this will affect my current routing of hoses which seems = to be working.

 

Of course, this may not be the correct rout= e. Perhaps I should install the 3rd gen oil cooler where the aviation one= is now and just bite the bullet on the glass work and pluming while stil= l using oil...or, buy an actual heater core and use water. Donno, yet...kinda thinking out loud and soliciting sugge= stions.

 

All that being said, my friend David Staten= mentioned this to me back in the day, that the aviation oil cooler may b= e a problem. At the time I remember saying "lets stick to the plans&= quot;. Well, looks as if David was right. He is a smart guy and even though he bowed out of the project ages ago, his insight is= still sought and appreciated. Steel sharpens steel. <g>

 

All the best,

 

Chris Barber

Houston


Warning: This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previo= us e-mails attached to it, may contain confidential information that is l= egally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or the person re= sponsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby not= ified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the inf= ormation contained in or attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIB= ITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately= notify us by telephone at 713-662-8132 and destroy the original transmis= sion and its attachments without reading them. Thank you.

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