X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3873375 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 15:09:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.227; envelope-from=lehanover@gmail.com Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so1684244bwz.19 for ; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=/NLlRv2/ADruYsgTgapncIOxKku9fYabyudfkf9EQPQ=; b=IweWU9s2KNFSP2er3WMpU+xMMdLWlQPk2NHgq6pnbuE5Z+E28iSpYLTz3NiSQZjhcO iudcPJQGXbrrRNWjizB1r8m69hq91UIJJ8nVCDPHQTwcVU1YqWmnhC0lCbYImbXDa6WU mAfwfW+Z5AMvZlMxfDSvGXrTELbswBCWe3Rfk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=n9qzrI4WVpBSCqRSLrXuil2tx4n0fCWgLTj7BWhifLg5Ms3SBJadBtbBAvt5uIrpdD U70GWNQKuvjVzZj8r3CW68P8SIYz/9JBHFelomHIGMAHTbgniqI+fw3o2+QakGjNTd76 nf9Qsa2hg5/zDAkCZL3LOlWyS18qlLZeHnY1c= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.152.154 with SMTP id g26mr2430639bkw.54.1254596911212; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 15:08:31 -0400 Message-ID: <1ab24f410910031208u66054a10n8940d6c8c15404ab@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Too much oil pressure. From: Lynn Hanover To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175d09de3aaaba04750c9ba4 --0015175d09de3aaaba04750c9ba4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Chris, A few Questions..................What size are your hoses (-8 , -10 , etc) ?............Does oil leaving the rear oil cooler routed 15 ft to a standard aircraft oil cooler ?...........Which hose has failed or is leaking ?.................If it is the 15 ft hose to the front cooler and is this cooler in series rather than parallel to the rear cooler I am guessing that the front cooler is restricting oil flow causing higher than normal pressure...............The standard Lycoming type oil coolers are not capable of the the oil flow (gals per minute) needed for a 13B without severely restricting flow and the resulting increase of oil pressure in the inlet hose.............Also the hose can be restrictive if it is too small for the 15 ft run...............IMHO -- Kelly Troyer "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold Ouch, you beat me to that one. I was waiting for the hair on the back of my neck to lay down before I started typing. There is no pressurized oil allowed inside the cabin of a race car. That white cloud of hot oil from a leak is explosive, and as powerful as gasoline. Even for oil pressure gages, you need a restrictor at the engine end of the pressure gage line or better yet an electric gage and sender. For fuel pressure an isolator with cold glycol in the message line, or an electric gage and sender. I would convert those oil lines and cooler to engine coolant with an automobile shutoff valve on each hose. Light and cheap, one cable could cycle both valves. So in the event of a leak inside the cabin, the coolant loop could be cut off with little loss of coolant. The heater will perform much better with coolant in it rather than oil. Oil absorbs and releases heat poorly. Not the case with a water based coolant. That would shorten the oil pressure lines to near normal, and remove what is causing the higher than normal pressure at the filter stand. The front pressure relief is set at 144 pounds. I bet the relief is standing open to some extent, the whole time the oil is warming up. At the other end of the oil pressure loop is the stock oil pressure regulator and it is not going to open until it sees 71 pounds or whatever it is set at. Once off idle (about 600 RPM) the stock pump has some excess capacity and could support such a situation. So resistance to flow by the long runs and the cooler could be producing a huge amount of pressure. If you are measuring oil pressure on the engine, you would not see that pressure on the gage. So long as the engine is at idle or low speed this may not have been a problem. If the engine were to rev up a bit oil pressure could have gone to a bit over 144 pounds while showing 71 pounds on the gage. This is peculiar to Mazda, where the regulator is at the end of the system rather than inside the pump where it is supposed to be. Similar to FI reulators on the end of the fuel rail, that can blow apart and set the engine on fire. This must be a Renesis. The "O" ring would have blown out of a 13B. Lynn E. Hanover --0015175d09de3aaaba04750c9ba4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,
=A0=A0=A0=A0A few=A0Questions..................What size are your hose= s (-8 , -10 , etc) ?............Does oil=A0leaving
the rear oil cooler=A0 routed 15 ft to a standard aircraft oil cooler = ?...........Which hose has failed or
is leaking ?.................If it is the 15 ft hose to the front cool= er and is=A0this cooler=A0 in series=A0 rather
than parallel to the rear cooler I am guessing that the front cooler i= s restricting oil flow causing
higher than normal pressure...............The standard Lycoming type o= il coolers are not capable
of the the oil flow (gals per minute)=A0needed for=A0 a 13B without se= verely restricting flow and the
resulting increase of oil pressure in the inlet hose.............Also = the hose can be restrictive if it
is too small for the 15 ft run...............IMHO
=A0
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B = ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Back= plate/Oil Manifold
Ouch, you beat me to that one. I was waiting for t= he hair on the back of my neck to lay down before I started typing.
=A0
There is no pressurized oil allowed inside the cab= in of a race car. That white cloud of hot oil from a leak is explosive, and= as powerful as gasoline. Even for oil pressure gages, you need a restricto= r at the engine end of the pressure gage line or better yet an electric gag= e and sender. For fuel pressure an isolator with cold glycol in the message= line,=A0or an electric gage and sender.
I would convert those oil lines and cooler to engi= ne coolant with an automobile shutoff valve on each hose. Light and cheap, = one cable could cycle both valves. So in the event of a leak inside the cab= in, the coolant loop could be cut off with little loss of coolant. The heat= er will perform much better with coolant in it rather than oil. Oil absorbs= and releases heat poorly. Not the case with a water based coolant.
=A0
=A0
=A0
That would shorten the oil pressure lines to near = normal, and remove what is=A0causing the higher than normal pressure at the= filter stand. The front pressure relief is set at 144 pounds. I bet the re= lief is standing open to some extent, the whole time the oil is warming up.= At the other end of the oil pressure loop is the stock oil pressure regula= tor and it is not going to open until it sees 71 pounds or whatever it is s= et at. Once off idle (about 600 RPM) the stock pump has some excess capacit= y and could support such a situation. So resistance to flow by the long run= s and the cooler could be producing a huge amount of pressure. If you are m= easuring oil pressure on the engine, you would not see that pressure on the= gage.
=A0
So long as the engine is at idle or low speed this= may not have been a problem. If the engine were to rev up a bit oil pressu= re could have gone to a bit over 144 pounds while showing 71 pounds on the = gage.
=A0
This is peculiar to Mazda, where the regulator is = at the end of the system rather than inside the pump where it is supposed t= o be. Similar to FI reulators on the end of the fuel rail, that can blow ap= art and set the engine on fire.
=A0
This must be a Renesis. The "O" ring wou= ld have blown out of a 13B.
=A0
Lynn E. Hanover
=A0
--0015175d09de3aaaba04750c9ba4--