X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bw0-f227.google.com ([209.85.218.227] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3873132 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 09:00:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.227; envelope-from=lehanover@gmail.com Received: by bwz27 with SMTP id 27so1570030bwz.19 for ; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:00:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=Wvbx3RGc8GswkhdjcvlN9sQFm7AANDg1GFIlCTvPSLA=; b=Un0agCYpKhKqa5Ky9sbXnSGhG1VQopktI0PrhtoqDmVfnq6d6tjoetRM61QNixiAFl W5HyLwNXHl9V9FOAsqeHVMzX8kb9ZuiPN4Pm7S6WxSIgQb6Qfdo+0vna7cAv2H6umvja jkqRk6HGfUIDrxm7ex18xuBFQLDEzjkxvh7MU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=m+Ha+X+ctGTkeB48DGaaC/bj9byUKIEiRhDqphBuq51HXFrMmHTp7wflPg7XySW0MD 0S5kjJ2vcJfWxT1dm/cVT3FUBXzcGQ8Ula3RcvsfIp7DGNiS+Xm35IJPhy1urB5OwFYf MipG2Z8KcbkhFd+ACplOKOfcHG40ve1MBhKos= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.155.67 with SMTP id r3mr2011344bkw.94.1254574800013; Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 08:59:59 -0400 Message-ID: <1ab24f410910030559y29e6b6e2r396162572183dbfb@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Too much oil pressure. From: Lynn Hanover To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0015175cff7a4c8abd0475077541 --0015175cff7a4c8abd0475077541 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, You didn=92t say which line burst. I recommend you test your oil pressure sender. Hook it up to your air compressor hose and compare the two readings. You should be able to do this close to the engine so you can rea= d it. Check the hose and fittings after the filter (all of them) for some kind of blockage. If the sender is ok, you may have a blockage between the filter and the sender. Could be the exit from the filter adapter. Did you make up your own hoses and install the ends? If you didn=92t use a mandrel, it is possible to get a sliver of the inside of the hose that coul= d come up and partially block the hose. Like Al, I don=92t see how this could happen. Maybe Lynn will know. Bill B The Teflon lined braided stainless hose uses the braid as the pressure bearing media. The liner is Teflon and has no strength at all. Just a fluid conduit. Typical ratings are 1500 pounds working and 3000 pounds burst. If = I remember correctly (who am I kidding?) that 3000 pounds would be for one hour at max rated pressure and temperature without failure. On used hose you will see the outside of the liner has extruded into the braid when run close to burst. The advantages are light weight, available a= t the local hot rod shop, relative low cost, and they are pretty. There are many brands to choose from. Goodrich, Goodyear and Aeroquip are the best known. There are also house brands (like the name of the chain store where the hose is sold). New old stock from military sales is an excelent source. Although the shelf life may be expired, the half life of Teflon is probably 5,000 years, so it will last long enough for us. The rea= l military stuff has a metal tag on every hose. That tag has the NSN (Nationa= l Stock Number) A long P/N the government applies to every part. The contract number (minimum) the working pressure, and may have the Cage Code (identifies the manufacturer) the manufacturers part number, the burst pressure. The fittings from different manufacturers should not be interchanged. The fittings from different styles from the same manufacturer should not be interchanged. Be aware that AN (Airforce-Navy Standard) (the airplane stuff= ) and JIC (Joint Industry Standard) look identical. The SAE hose looks exactl= y the same as well but will more likely have 45 drgree flair angles rather than 37 degree flair angles. This is one of many sites that explain hose use well............... http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2004/12/ANfittings/index.php *Introduction* If you want to separate yourself and your car from the amateurs you have to stop using cheap rubber hose and clamps to plumb the vital fluids to your motor. That stuff works and gets you by, but it is not classy and has major limitations in durability and more importantly, safety. Most racing bodies, like the NHRA, do not allow more than a six inch stretch of rubber hose for things like fuel and oil lines. They mandate that those fluids flow through hard-line or steel braided line as those two materials are unlikely to burst, melt, or be cut in the event of a mishap. That is why the top race cars at the track have motors decked out in steel braided line and those spiffy red and blue fittings - it is due to safety and durability, not just because it looks cool. The greatest benefit to AN (pronounce each letter) i= s in the sealing capability. A connection between male and female AN flares can handle tremendous pressure without leaking, making it the right choice for oil, fuel or water. In this article we'll give you the entire scoop on how to properly plumb your car with AN hard and soft line. *Background* AN stands for "Air Force-Navy Aeronautical Standard" and was an aviation fitting standard developed around WWII. The fitting featured a 37 degree mating angle which provided superior sealing compared to the common 45 degree fittings. The fittings also utilized a higher class of *3 key facts about AN fittings.* * *Flare angle is 37=B0, not 45=B0 **Interchangea= ble with JIC fittings ** Divide AN # by 16 to get inchesthread quality. Eventually the AN fittings saw widespread military use and a multiple manufacturers began producing the fittings, leading to quality problems. Th= e Joint Industries Council (JIC), an industry organization, sought to standardize the specifications on this type of fitting and created the "JIC= " fitting standard, a 37 degree fitting with a slightly lower class of thread quality than the military AN version. The SAE went on to adopt the JIC standard as well. As a result JIC or SAE 37 degree fittings are perfectly interchangeable with AN fittings, and while this may not be acceptable for military aviation use, for automotive use there is no downside other than perhaps mismatched color coordination as JIC fittings are not available in the pretty anodize aluminum colors. However this may be a worthy tradeoff considering the JIC fittings are a fraction of the price of their true "AN" counterparts. We mixed and matched in this article to show you their interchangeability. *Using AN *A half-dozen companies make AN fittings, hose, and line and most all of it is interchangeable except for certain proprietary "push on" type hoses and fittings. Always check the manufacturers information before purchasing hose or hose ends to make sure it is compatible. The AN side will always be 37= =B0, it is the hose side that can vary depending on manufacturer designs. AN components come in easy to understand sizes, all divisible by 16 for easy conversion into fractions of one inch. For example, a -8AN (dash 8 AN) hose is 8/16" inner diameter, or 1/2" inch. AN is generally available in -4 to -12, and larger specialty sizes. When selecting AN you must determine if you need to use hard line or soft line (generally Teflon, rubber, or special material with a steel braided or other protective sheath) or a combination of both. Hard line is not specifi= c to AN, and this can be aluminum or steel and can be sourced from any hardware supply store. In other words 1/2" aluminum tubing is compatible with -8AN fittings. Soft line is AN specific because it needs to mate properly with the hose ends (as we'll show you later in this article.) When selecting soft line be sure to use hose material that is compatible with th= e fluid and pressure you plan to run through it. (Fla= ring the Hard Line) Requires Subscription *Page* *1* 2 3 So, what to do. If there is any doubt about the use or applications or assembly, take the hose to your local hose shop and have them checked by a professional. They will gleefully explode any sub-par and Chinese replica hoses in their test cell, usually for free. They will also test any hose they make up for you before you pay for it. The big three make lines of hose and fittings for hot rod use. They are eas= y to assemble, and when done properly can withstand the factory tests for pullout and burst. How did the hose fail? If it was a name brand assembled by the manufacturer it would fail above 3000 pounds. A figure not available from a powdered metal oil pump in the Mazda engine. So let us suggest that failure happened well below the burst rating of the hose. The later Mazda front covers have improved the "O" ring junction that would blow out and loose oil pressure on older 13Bs. The fron= t cover is still way too flexible and that junction would still leak because the cover will be pushed off of the junction by an over pressure. Early 13B= s had a reliefe valve in the cover (looks like a brass bolt head) that opens at 144 pounds to protect the "O" ring junction and the stock oil cooler fro= m damage in a cold start. The relief valve at the bottom of the rear iron in early engines was a piece that could be disassembled and adjusted to produc= e any oil pressure you might want to run. In stock form it produced 71 pounds of pressure. In turbo engines and Renesis the valve is welded shut and set at 110 to 115 pounds. So, If the front relief and "O" ring junction is not used, and the whole oil supply is delivered to the oil filter stand, there must be a restriction in the hose beyond the failure point, or in the filter stand. Remote filter stands flow outside-in. If you look at the top of the filter, the little holes around the outside is where the oil goes into the filter. Oil exits through the center hole. If the filter can has the anti drainback feature, you will see some black rubber through the little holes areound th= e outside. When these cans are installed upside down that black rubber flap keeps oil from running back out of the filter for a month or so. So, in most cases yo= u can get oil pressure in short order on start-up, rather than having to run the engine for 15 or 30 seconds before you see oil pressure. With the number of cans that have been tried on this installation and this is the second filter stand. My bet is on a defective hose from the git-go that hase been the source of the leak all along. That would fit best in my mind. There is no excessive oil pressure. The hos= e never saw its burst rating. It was failed before it was installed. Lynn E. Hanover --0015175cff7a4c8abd0475077541 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Chris,

You didn=92t say which line burst.=A0 I recommend you= test your oil pressure sender.=A0 Hook it up to your air compressor hose a= nd compare the two readings.=A0 You should be able to do this close to the = engine so you can read it.

Check the hose and fittings after the filter (all of = them) for some kind of blockage.=A0 If the sender is ok, you may have a blo= ckage between the filter and the sender.=A0 Could be the exit from the filt= er adapter.

Did you make up your own hoses and install the ends?= =A0 If you didn=92t use a mandrel, it is possible to get a sliver of the in= side of the hose that could come up and partially block the hose.

Like Al, I don=92t see how this could happen.=A0 Mayb= e Lynn will know.

Bill B
=A0
The Teflon lined braided stainless hose uses the br= aid as the pressure bearing media. The liner is Teflon and has no strength = at all. Just a fluid conduit. Typical ratings are 1500 pounds working and 3= 000 pounds burst. If I remember correctly (who am I kidding?) that 3000 pou= nds would be for one hour at max rated pressure and temperature without fai= lure.
=A0
On used hose you will see the outside of the liner = has extruded into the braid when run close to burst. The advantages are lig= ht weight, available at the local hot rod shop, relative low cost, and they= are pretty.
=A0
There are many brands to choose from. Goodrich, Goo= dyear and Aeroquip are the best known. There are also house brands (like th= e name of the chain store where the hose is sold).=A0 New old stock from mi= litary sales is an excelent source. Although the shelf life may be expired,= the half life of Teflon is probably 5,000 years, so it will last long enou= gh for us. The real military stuff has a metal tag on every hose. That tag = has the NSN (National Stock Number) A long P/N the government applies to ev= ery part. The contract number (minimum) the working pressure, and may have = the Cage Code (identifies the manufacturer) the manufacturers part number, = the burst pressure.=A0
=A0
The fittings from different manufacturers should no= t be interchanged. The fittings from different styles from the same manufac= turer should not be interchanged. Be aware that AN (Airforce-Navy Standard)= (the airplane stuff) and JIC (Joint Industry Standard) look identical. The= =A0SAE hose looks exactly the same as well but will more likely have 45 drg= ree flair angles rather than 37 degree flair angles.=A0
=A0
This is one of many sites that explain hose use wel= l...............
=A0
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2004/12/ANfitti= ngs/index.php
=A0

Introduction
If you want to separate yourself and your car fro= m the amateurs you have to stop using cheap rubber hose and clamps to plumb= the vital fluids to your motor. That stuff works and gets you by, but it i= s not classy and has major limitations in durability and more importantly, = safety. Most racing bodies, like the NHRA, do not allow more than a six inc= h stretch of rubber hose for things like fuel and oil lines. They mandate t= hat those fluids flow through hard-line or steel braided line as those two = materials are unlikely to burst, melt, or be cut in the event of a mishap. = That is why the top race cars at the track have motors decked out in steel = braided line and those spiffy red and blue fittings - it is due to safety a= nd durability, not just because it looks cool. The greatest benefit to AN (= pronounce each letter) is in the sealing capability. A connection between m= ale and female AN flares can handle tremendous pressure without leaking, ma= king it the right choice for oil, fuel or water. In this article we'll = give you the entire scoop on how to properly plumb your car with AN hard an= d soft line.

Background
AN stands for "Air Force-Navy Aeronautical St= andard" and was an aviation fitting standard developed around WWII. Th= e fitting featured a 37 degree mating angle which provided superior sealing= compared to the common 45 degree fittings. The fittings also utilized a hi= gher class of=20 thread quality. Eventually the AN fittings saw = widespread military use and a multiple manufacturers began producing the fi= ttings, leading to quality problems. The Joint Industries Council (JIC), an= industry organization, sought to standardize the specifications on = this type of fitting and created the "JIC" fitting standard, a 37= degree fitting with a slightly lower class of thread quality than the mili= tary AN version. The SAE went on to adopt the JIC standard as well. As a re= sult JIC or SAE 37 degree fittings are perfectly interchangeable with AN fi= ttings, and while this may not be acceptable for military aviation use, for= automotive use there is no downside other than perhaps mismatched color co= ordination as JIC fittings are not available in the pretty anodize aluminum= colors. However this may be a worthy tradeoff considering the JIC fittings= are a fraction of the price of their true "AN" counterparts. We = mixed and matched in this article to show you their interchangeability.

Using AN
A half-dozen companies make AN fittings, hose, and l= ine and most all of it is interchangeable except for certain proprietary &q= uot;push on" type hoses and fittings. Always check the manufacturers i= nformation before purchasing hose or hose ends to make sure it is compatibl= e. The AN side will always be 37=B0, it is = the hose side that can vary depending on manufacturer designs. AN component= s come in easy to understand sizes, all divisible by 16 for easy conversion= into fractions of one inch. For example, a -8AN (dash 8 AN) hose is 8/16&q= uot; inner diameter, or 1/2" inch. AN is generally available in -4 to = -12, and larger specialty sizes.

When selecting AN you must determine if you need to use hard line or so= ft line (generally Teflon, rubber, or special material with a steel braided= or other protective sheath) or a combination of both. Hard line is not spe= cific to AN, and this can be aluminum or steel and can be sourced from any = hardware supply store. In other words 1/2" aluminum tubing is compatib= le with -8AN fittings. Soft line is AN specific because it needs to mate pr= operly with the hose ends (as we'll show you later in this article.) Wh= en selecting soft line be sure to use hose material that is compatible with= the fluid and pressure you plan to run through it.

3 key facts about AN fittings.
Flar= e angle is 37=B0, not 45=B0
Inter= changeable with JIC fittings
Divi= de AN # by 16 to get inches
=A0
(Flaring the Hard Line)
Requires Subscription<= /span>
Page
1
 2 3

=A0
So, what to do. If there is any doubt about the us= e or applications or assembly, take the hose to your local hose shop and ha= ve them checked by a professional. They will gleefully explode any sub-par = and Chinese replica hoses in their test cell, usually for free. They will a= lso test any hose they make up for you before you pay for it.=A0
=A0
The big three make lines of hose and fittings for = hot rod use. They are easy to assemble, and when done properly can withstan= d the factory tests for pullout and burst.=A0=A0
=A0
How did the hose fail?
=A0
If it was a name brand assembled by the manufactur= er it would fail above 3000 pounds. A figure not available from a=A0powdere= d metal oil pump in the Mazda engine. So let us suggest that failure happen= ed well below the burst rating of the hose. The later Mazda front covers ha= ve improved the "O" ring junction that would blow out and loose o= il pressure on older 13Bs. The front cover is still way too flexible and th= at junction would still leak because the cover will be pushed off of the ju= nction by an over pressure. Early 13Bs had a reliefe valve in the cover (lo= oks like a brass bolt head) that opens at 144 pounds to protect the "O= " ring junction and the stock oil cooler from damage in a cold start. = The relief valve at the bottom of the rear iron in early engines was a piec= e that could be disassembled and adjusted to produce any oil pressure you m= ight want to run. In stock form it produced 71 pounds of pressure. In turbo= engines and Renesis the valve is welded shut and set at 110 to 115 pounds.= =A0
=A0
So,
If the front relief and "O" ring junctio= n is not used, and the whole oil supply is delivered to the oil filter stan= d, there must be a restriction in the hose beyond the failure point, or in = the filter stand.=A0
=A0
Remote filter stands flow outside-in. If you look = at the top of the filter, the little holes around the outside is where the = oil goes into the filter. Oil exits through the center hole. If the filter = can has the anti drainback feature, you will see some black rubber through = the little holes areound the outside.=A0
=A0
When these cans are installed upside down that bla= ck rubber flap keeps oil from running back out of the filter for a month or= so. So, in most cases you can get oil pressure in short order on start-up,= rather than having to run the engine for 15 or 30 seconds before you see o= il pressure.=A0
=A0
With the number of cans that have been tried on th= is installation and this is the second filter stand.
=A0
My bet is on a defective hose from the git-go that= hase been the source of the leak all along.=A0
=A0
That would fit best in my mind. There is no excess= ive oil pressure. The hose never saw its burst rating. It was failed before= it was installed.=A0
=A0
Lynn E. Hanover=A0=A0=A0=A0
--0015175cff7a4c8abd0475077541--