X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.245] (HELO mail.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3872634 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 02 Oct 2009 18:29:55 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.245; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CA43B8.A412CA3E" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 17:32:43 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F315EC77@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Thread-Index: AcpDp13PrvjJa8E2SBeECJEpvwXFKQAEKR0g References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA43B8.A412CA3E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes. Ed has been a great help. The formula accurately predicted my current BTU rejection as compared to the Renesis dyno data merged with the Eaton M64 SC data. Hope it holds true for the new duct. However when you change things you never know. I had to enlarge the defuser duct also so that may have change other things.=20 =20 Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 2:25 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Bobby, Is that one of Ed's formulas? George ( down under) isn't the inlet face area supposed to be 30% to 35 % of rad face area =20 Based on the data I've collected 26% should give me the correct heat rejection for climb out at 100 mph. Just have to see if it actually works. =20 =20 Bobby =09 =09 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 5:04 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity =09 =09 My mistake Bobby, I'm working too quickly and not concentrating enough. 775 to 800 cu" should be enough rad volume - however isn't the inlet face area supposed to be 30% to 35 % of rad face area. I suppose your looking for min drag? George (down under)=20 George, =20 Have not changed the heat exchangers. Just the plumbing and shortened the hose loop by about 18 inches. The increase from 21 to 26% is the opening size to core face ratio. I have about 272 sq in of core face and the opens are now 72 sq in. If this test doesn't work I will be adding a small oil to air exchanger in parallel with the oil \ water exchanger with dedicated inlet and reducing my Rad inlets back to 21% / 58 sq in. Actual core size is about 775 not 800 cu in as I stated earlier. =20 Glad I have the molds for all this stuff. =20 =20 Bobby (still wondering about Tracy's cooling solution) =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 2:53 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity =09 =09 Bobby, I've seen between 3 to 3.5 cu" per HP, I guess that depends of how well the cooling is set-up, 800 cu" of Radiator should do fine for 250hp. If your previous exchanger was 650 cu" for 250 hp it was undersized. I guessdamated that size form the info you previously provided. =20 George (down under) George, =20 I have 800 cu in of water to air exchangers. No oil to air exchanger. At 6800 rpm \ 38" MP I'm producing close to 250 hp. But 15 hp is used to drive the SC. So about 3.2 cu in per HP. The new openings are about 72 sq in. The goal is to lower the water temps from 200F to 185F with an OAT of 100F. Oil is running 20F hotter than water. With the 21% ratio I was only able to maintain 185 HP and keep the oil temps below 220F \ OAT 95F. It all an experiment.=20 =20 Bobby ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity =09 =09 Bobby, What is your expected HP. How does 26% of core face equate to 3 cu" for every HP i.e. 200 hp =3D 600 cu" George (down under) With any luck I will be back in the air this weekend. I made several changes including opening my inlets from 21% to 26% of my core face. Of course it's no longer 105F so will have to extrapolate the data. Other changes include relocating the battery back to the stock location, removing 13lbs of tail ballets, new exhaust manifold and belly mount muffler, CO Detector, exhaust heat for cabin, O2 system, autopilot, 230 psi water spray for radiator and manifold injection (yet to be tested), re-plumb the oil to water exchanger and a fresh pilot bi-annual today.=20 =20 Bobby ________________________________ Anyone out there ??.....................<:) =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CA43B8.A412CA3E Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes. Ed has been a great help. The formula = accurately=20 predicted my current BTU rejection as compared to the Renesis dyno = data=20 merged with the Eaton M64 SC data. Hope it holds true for the new duct. = However=20 when you change things you never know. I had to enlarge the defuser duct = also so=20 that may have change other things.
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 2:25 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Activity

Bobby,
Is that one of Ed's = formulas?
George ( down under)
isn't the inlet=20 face area supposed to be 30% to 35 % of rad  face=20 area
 
Based on the data I've collected 26% should = give me=20 the correct heat rejection for climb out at 100 mph. Just have to see = if it=20 actually works. 
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 5:04 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Activity

 My mistake Bobby, = I'm working too=20 quickly and not concentrating enough. 775 to 800 cu" should be enough = rad=20 volume - however isn't the inlet face area supposed to be = 30% to 35=20 % of rad  face area.
I suppose your looking for min = drag?
George (down = under) 
George,
 
Have not changed the heat exchangers. Just the = plumbing=20 and shortened the hose loop by about 18 inches. The increase = from 21 to=20 26% is the opening size to core face ratio. I have about 272 sq = in of=20 core face and the opens are now 72 sq in. If this test doesn't work = I will=20 be adding a small oil to air exchanger in parallel with the oil \ = water=20 exchanger with dedicated inlet and reducing my Rad inlets back to = 21% /=20 58 sq in.  Actual core size is about 775 not 800 cu in as = I stated=20 earlier.
 
Glad I have the molds for all this = stuff. =20
 
Bobby
(still wondering = about Tracy's=20 cooling solution) =20
From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 2:53 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Activity

 Bobby,
I've seen between 3 to 3.5 cu" per = HP, I=20 guess that depends of how well the cooling is set-up, 800 cu" of = Radiator=20 should do fine for 250hp.
If your previous exchanger was 650 = cu" for 250=20 hp it was undersized. I guessdamated that size form the info you = previously=20 provided.
 
George (down under)
George,
 
I have 800 cu in of water to air exchangers. = No oil to=20 air exchanger. At 6800 rpm \ 38" MP I'm producing close to 250 hp. = But 15=20 hp is used to drive the SC. So about 3.2 cu in per HP. The new = openings=20 are about 72 sq in. The goal is to lower the water temps from 200F = to 185F=20 with an OAT of 100F. Oil is running 20F hotter than water. With = the 21%=20 ratio I was only able to maintain 185 HP and keep the oil temps = below 220F=20 \ OAT 95F. It all an experiment.
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:31=20 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Activity

 Bobby,
What is your expected = HP.
How does 26% of core face equate = to 3 cu" for=20 every HP
 i.e. 200 hp =3D 600 = cu"
George (down under)
With any luck I will be = back in the air=20 this weekend. I made several changes including opening my inlets = from=20 21% to 26% of my core face. Of course it's no longer 105F so = will have=20 to extrapolate the data. Other changes include relocating the = battery=20 back to the stock location, removing 13lbs of tail ballets, new = exhaust=20 manifold and belly mount muffler, CO Detector, exhaust heat for = cabin,=20 O2 system, autopilot, 230 psi water spray for radiator and = manifold=20 injection (yet to be tested), re-plumb the oil to water=20 exchanger and a fresh pilot bi-annual=20 today. 
 
Bobby


Anyone out there ??.....................<:)
 
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