X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from poplet2.per.eftel.com ([203.24.100.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.16) with ESMTP id 3871738 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 01 Oct 2009 20:03:56 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=203.24.100.45; envelope-from=lendich@aanet.com.au Received: from sv1-1.aanet.com.au (sv1-1.per.aanet.com.au [203.24.100.68]) by poplet2.per.eftel.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30230173A14 for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2009 08:03:21 +0800 (WST) Received: from ownerf1fc517b8 (203.171.92.134.static.rev.aanet.com.au [203.171.92.134]) by sv1-1.aanet.com.au (Postfix) with SMTP id 75BD0BEC019 for ; Fri, 2 Oct 2009 08:03:16 +0800 (WST) Message-ID: From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:03:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01CA433F.36A62820" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 090930-0, 09/30/2009), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01CA433F.36A62820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My mistake Bobby, I'm working too quickly and not concentrating enough. = 775 to 800 cu" should be enough rad volume - however isn't the inlet = face area supposed to be 30% to 35 % of rad face area. I suppose your looking for min drag? George (down under)=20 George, Have not changed the heat exchangers. Just the plumbing and shortened = the hose loop by about 18 inches. The increase from 21 to 26% is the = opening size to core face ratio. I have about 272 sq in of core face and = the opens are now 72 sq in. If this test doesn't work I will be adding a = small oil to air exchanger in parallel with the oil \ water exchanger = with dedicated inlet and reducing my Rad inlets back to 21% / 58 sq in. = Actual core size is about 775 not 800 cu in as I stated earlier. Glad I have the molds for all this stuff. =20 Bobby (still wondering about Tracy's cooling solution) =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 2:53 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Bobby, I've seen between 3 to 3.5 cu" per HP, I guess that depends of how = well the cooling is set-up, 800 cu" of Radiator should do fine for = 250hp. If your previous exchanger was 650 cu" for 250 hp it was undersized. I = guessdamated that size form the info you previously provided. George (down under) George, I have 800 cu in of water to air exchangers. No oil to air = exchanger. At 6800 rpm \ 38" MP I'm producing close to 250 hp. But 15 hp = is used to drive the SC. So about 3.2 cu in per HP. The new openings are = about 72 sq in. The goal is to lower the water temps from 200F to 185F = with an OAT of 100F. Oil is running 20F hotter than water. With the 21% = ratio I was only able to maintain 185 HP and keep the oil temps below = 220F \ OAT 95F. It all an experiment.=20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Activity Bobby, What is your expected HP. How does 26% of core face equate to 3 cu" for every HP i.e. 200 hp =3D 600 cu" George (down under) With any luck I will be back in the air this weekend. I made = several changes including opening my inlets from 21% to 26% of my core = face. Of course it's no longer 105F so will have to extrapolate the = data. Other changes include relocating the battery back to the stock = location, removing 13lbs of tail ballets, new exhaust manifold and belly = mount muffler, CO Detector, exhaust heat for cabin, O2 system, = autopilot, 230 psi water spray for radiator and manifold injection (yet = to be tested), re-plumb the oil to water exchanger and a fresh pilot = bi-annual today.=20 Bobby -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Anyone out there ??.....................<:) ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01CA433F.36A62820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 My mistake Bobby, = I'm working too=20 quickly and not concentrating enough. 775 to 800 cu" should be enough = rad=20 volume - however isn't the inlet face area supposed to be 30% = to 35=20 % of rad  face area.
I suppose your looking for min = drag?
George (down under) 
George,
 
Have not changed the heat exchangers. Just = the plumbing=20 and shortened the hose loop by about 18 inches. The increase from = 21 to=20 26% is the opening size to core face ratio. I have about 272 sq = in of=20 core face and the opens are now 72 sq in. If this test doesn't work I = will be=20 adding a small oil to air exchanger in parallel with the oil \ water = exchanger=20 with dedicated inlet and reducing my Rad inlets back to 21% / 58 = sq=20 in.  Actual core size is about 775 not 800 cu in as I stated = earlier.
 
Glad I have the molds for all this = stuff. =20
 
Bobby
(still wondering about = Tracy's=20 cooling solution) =20
From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 2:53 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Activity

 Bobby,
I've seen between 3 to 3.5 cu" per = HP, I=20 guess that depends of how well the cooling is set-up, 800 cu" of = Radiator=20 should do fine for 250hp.
If your previous exchanger was 650 = cu" for 250 hp=20 it was undersized. I guessdamated that size form the info you = previously=20 provided.
 
George (down under)
George,
 
I have 800 cu in of water to air = exchangers. No oil to=20 air exchanger. At 6800 rpm \ 38" MP I'm producing close to 250 hp. = But 15 hp=20 is used to drive the SC. So about 3.2 cu in per HP. The new openings = are=20 about 72 sq in. The goal is to lower the water temps from 200F to = 185F with=20 an OAT of 100F. Oil is running 20F hotter than water. With the 21% = ratio I=20 was only able to maintain 185 HP and keep the oil temps below 220F \ = OAT=20 95F. It all an experiment.
 
Bobby

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:31 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Activity

 Bobby,
What is your expected = HP.
How does 26% of core face equate to = 3 cu" for=20 every HP
 i.e. 200 hp =3D 600 = cu"
George (down under)
With any luck I will be back in the air = this weekend.=20 I made several changes including opening my inlets from 21% to 26% = of my=20 core face. Of course it's no longer 105F so will have to = extrapolate the=20 data. Other changes include relocating the battery back to the = stock=20 location, removing 13lbs of tail ballets, new exhaust manifold and = belly=20 mount muffler, CO Detector, exhaust heat for cabin, O2 system, = autopilot,=20 230 psi water spray for radiator and manifold injection (yet to be = tested), re-plumb the oil to water exchanger and a fresh = pilot=20 bi-annual today. 
 
Bobby


Anyone out there ??.....................<:)
 
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