Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #47883
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subject: Alternator Pic & Modifications
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:20:52 +0000
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Group,
    Below is an exchange I had with Tim Holt a member of our group currently building
a RV10 with a 20B Rotary concerning the modification of his Mazda alternator for
an external regulator as described in the link below...........I have modified several of
the Mazda alternators and have described the process on this forum before and at the
Rotary Roundup a few years ago...........I did not invent this modification and do not
make any claim that I did.........There are different opinions among our group as to the
necessity of this modification and I will let others voice their opinion on this...............
 
   I personnaly believe that if there is even a remote possibility of a short in the internal
regulator causing run away voltage and there being no way to shut the alternator down
by removing the field voltage (the field voltage is supplied by the internal regulator) that
is reason enough to use an external regulator that you can cut the field voltage and shut
the alternator down................I have several photos that Tim sent me of his modified
regulator/brush housing that are too large to send with this post...........E mail me direct
at keltro@att.net  and I will forward them to anyone interested...........Below is the link
to the original modification information.............Please note that I advocate the complete
removal of the internal regulator circuitry to prevent any chance of a short in any device
preventing removal of the field voltage..............Also I use solid copper wire jumpers
instead of the copper "desolder braid" as described in the link below...........
 
PS- Read posts from the bottom up for chronological order !!
 
 
    Best Regards,
 
  Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold 

 

 

 From:  Kelly Troyer keltro@att.net  

           
To:    "Holt, Timothy LT" <Timothy.C.Holt@uscg.mil>
Subject:    Modify Alternator for External Regulator
Date:    Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:25:07 AM   [View Source]


 
   Tim,
   Here is link for modifying the stock Mazda alternator for an external regulator.....
........I have personally used one modified as described in my Chevrolet 4.3L V6
powered 1988 RX7 for over 60,000 miles...............I personally believe you should
completely remove the internal regulator and not just bypass it with the shorting straps
as described in the link (to eliminate any chance of an internal short in the regulator
causing a problem)............This is accomplished by removing the heatsink top and all potting compound and regulator internal circuitry...........All my Mazda alternators have
basically the same internals (including the 90 amp that came with my 13B Cosmo that
is the same that comes stock on the 20B Cosmo engine).........Your regulator/brush
holder should have essentially the same number of solder blobs as described in the
modification link..........Some alternators do not have but one bridge to cut (cut it
rather than desolder as it takes a lot of heat and you are close to the diode bridge
and do not want to damage them)...........
 
    Use a multimeter to make sure that your shorting jumper connects the proper
brush to the "L" terminal of the external connector and that the other jumper connects the other brush to ground (the alternator housing) when the brush holder is installed
as stated in the modification link............
 
    This is not necessary but I do my shorting jumpers a little different.........I use
a short piece of 14 gauge house wiring (insulation removed) formed into a small
"U" shape inserted from the now empty internal regulator cavity side and through
the solder blob holes(solder removed)then resolder in place and snip off all excess
wire.........Then I re-pot (fill) the regulator cavity with silicone(your choice of color)
 
    Your brush holder/regulator should be essentially the same as described and
have the same number of solder blobs...........If not sent me a close up photo and
we will figure out what to do with it.............This is really a very easy modification
once you have done it.............   
 
 
Best of Luck with the Project !!

Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: Timothy Holt <tntholt23@bellsouth.net>
To: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
Subject: Re: Alternator Pic & Modifications
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 00:15:20 +0000

Kelly,
  Here is some pics of the completed regulator.  The only recommendation if I had to do it over again is I would desolder the wires on the solder pad.  The regulator circuit board is connected to the heat sink and it would have made it easier to remove the heatsink.  I was able to get enough room between the heatsink and regulator that I was able to get a pair of small wire snips and get it apart.  Thank you for all the help.


From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Timothy Holt <tntholt23@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:03:52 AM
Subject: Re: Alternator Pic & Modifications

Tim,
  These brush/regulator housings vary slightly from model to model.........Go ahead and
leave the jumper on the lower brush as it will not hurt to have both "L" and "R"
terminals wired together..........That way you will not have to remember which one needs
to be wired for the connector to the field (either one or both will do)..........
 
  Your last message stated the Top terminal (did you mean 'Top Brush")has no
continuity with either of the terminals............It should not have............The Top brush
should have continuity with the metal "Washer" in the screw hole on the other side
of the brush housing when the jumper is in place on that side...........Put the jumper
in place and check for continuity from the top brush to this metal washer.........When
the brush holder is fastened into the alternator this metal washer makes contact with
the metal alternator housing and provides the path to the ground side of the circuit...
 
   I am presuming you have completely removed the internal regulator circuitry.........
  Let me know if this does the job............. 
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
-------------- Original message from Timothy Holt <tntholt23@bellsouth.net>: --------------

I just removed the jumper on the lower brush now i only have continuity on just one terminal. Do I need the jumper?


From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Timothy Holt <tntholt23@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:28:51 PM
Subject: Re: Alternator Pic & Modifications

OK Tim,
   First you need to carefully remove the metal heat-sink from the top of the
regulator (I used a small thin blade knife to pop it loose from the potting
material underneath).........Try not to break any of the brush/regulator housing
as it is somewhat brittle...........Then remove the potting and regulator internal
circuitry (it is somewhat rubbery).........I used a small narrow blade screwdriver
and it takes a little work (again try not to crack or break the housing).........
 
   You will be left with 4 small wires that are soldered to the "Blobs" on
the opposite side of the housing.........Heat these "Blobs" and remove the wires
and clean the solder from the holes.........There is a small metal solder pad
at each hole..........You do not have to use a 14 gauge wire as jumpers as
it is slightly larger than the holes so I very carefully enlarged the holes with
a small drill bit (the 14 gause just happened to be handy) but I would use
a solid wire rather than a stranded wire...............
 
   Using your #1 photo for reference use your meter to check for continuity
from the top brush to a solder hole (it looks like the top brush goes to the
right side of the housing)............If it does go to the right side check the other
hole on that side to see if it is connected to one of the terminals..........If it
does then your first jumper will be inserted from the regulator side through both
of these holes and carefully soldered (no cold solder joints please)...........If
the other hole on the right side does not go to one of the terminals then it
will be the "Ground" brush and still will be jumper-ed as I described..........
 
   Now go to the left side of the housing and use your meter to check for
continuity from the other brush to one of the solder holes on that side then
check the other hole on that side to determine if it goes to either a terminal
or ground (depends on where the other brush went)...........Once you have
made sure where the other solder hole goes jumper these 2 holes as the
other side and again carefully solder (snip off any extra wire above solder)
 
   Check both brushes with your meter to make sure one has continuity to
one of the "External Terminals" (does not matter which one just remember
as it will connect to the "Field" terminal of your external regulator) and the
other brush will be connected to "Ground" (the alternator housing) through
one of the screws that fastens the brush assembly to the alternator.......Also
make sure there is "NO" continuity (Short) between the 2 brushes.........
 
   Now to make things neat and tidy I would "Repot" the regulator side
of the brush housing with some silicone (your choice of color) to protect
the jumper wires from moisture and accidental shorting..............
 
   Hope my long winded directions are clear as I do not know your comfort
level when dealing with electrical stuff and I have made several assumptions
as to your familarity with a volt/ohm meter to check continuity............Let
me know how you do with this and send me a photo when finished..........
 
   One other thing.........You may completely clip off the rest of the tab
close to the brush housing that you unsoldered?clipped from from the "Diode"
array as described in the modification link I sent to you initially................. 
 
All the Best   
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
-------------- Original message from Timothy Holt <tntholt23@bellsouth.net>: --------------

Kelly,
  Here is some pictures of my regulator.
From:   
"Kelly Troyer" <keltro@att.net>            
To:    "Holt, Timothy LT" <Timothy.C.Holt@uscg.mil>
Subject:    Modify Alternator for External Regulator
Date:    Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:25:07 AM   [View Source]


 
   Tim,
   Here is link for modifying the stock Mazda alternator for an external regulator.....
........I have personally used one modified as described in my Chevrolet 4.3L V6
powered 1988 RX7 for over 60,000 miles...............I personally believe you should
completely remove the internal regulator and not just bypass it with the shorting straps
as described in the link (to eliminate any chance of an internal short in the regulator
causing a problem)............This is accomplished by removing the heatsink top and all potting compound and regulator internal circuitry...........All my Mazda alternators have
basically the same internals (including the 90 amp that came with my 13B Cosmo that
is the same that comes stock on the 20B Cosmo engine).........Your regulator/brush
holder should have essentially the same number of solder blobs as described in the
modification link..........Some alternators do not have but one bridge to cut (cut it
rather than desolder as it takes a lot of heat and you are close to the diode bridge
and do not want to damage them)...........
 
    Use a multimeter to make sure that your shorting jumper connects the proper
brush to the "L" terminal of the external connector and that the other jumper connects the other brush to ground (the alternator housing) when the brush holder is installed
as stated in the modification link............
 
    This is not necessary but I do my shorting jumpers a little different.........I use
a short piece of 14 gauge house wiring (insulation removed) formed into a small
"U" shape inserted from the now empty internal regulator cavity side and through
the solder blob holes(solder removed)then resolder in place and snip off all excess
wire.........Then I re-pot (fill) the regulator cavity with silicone(your choice of color)
 
    Your brush holder/regulator should be essentially the same as described and
have the same number of solder blobs...........If not sent me a close up photo and
we will figure out what to do with it.............This is really a very easy modification
once you have done it.............   
 
 
Best of Luck with the Project !!

Kelly Troyer
"Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
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