X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao101.cox.net ([68.230.241.45] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.15) with ESMTP id 3765073 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:27:42 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.45; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao101.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090720002707.WOSA28095.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:27:07 -0400 Received: from NOTEBOOK ([72.192.133.78]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id J0T71c0021hf1Cg040T7LV; Sun, 19 Jul 2009 20:27:07 -0400 X-VR-Score: -30.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=_ZVgNSLF_PQA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=Vlxnlb0Xa6HD_AFGN74A:9 a=hAj4JMoSe9wE0UOIn4wA:7 a=6rPrwGMpAZwz9XkQm6QZ_PK55wkA:4 a=zqXRXsriYoUA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=cs62OXMurOUyFWkBs7EA:7 a=yTJT59HAveBxpRTTN3-bJZ2Gpd0A:4 X-CM-Score: 0.00 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] More EC2 Tuning - Less progress - need help/ideas Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 17:27:12 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01CA0896.275D6830" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CA0896.275D6830 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mike; I'll disagree with Bob on the surging - it generally means too lean. On the other, I agree; sounds like the timing is off; like way off. Have you tried resetting all settings on A to the defaults. View the setting for A; do they look right - mixture table all zeros, pulse width something around 130 (just guessing), timing at 0. It should come back from Tracy with both controllers set to default, but maybe something happened to mess up A. It's questionable that the timing adjust range of the EC2 could take it so far off to get the behavior you're observing; but maybe in combination with too lean . . . . Al G -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Fontenot Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 3:52 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] More EC2 Tuning - Less progress - need help/ideas Hi all, Hope the summer has been going well for the rest of you. I had a detour in my EC2 tuning, but am back at it. Summary: EC2 on A controller has the engine surging at just about all RPMs I could manage to attain. Kind of a "rummm.... rummmm..... rummm..". I could only get the RPMs up to around 1800 (out of a 5600 max) and the engine is knocking and banging, and even making a 'pffffut' kind of noise. Sounded like air or something. Maybe coolant spewing out, because at the end of my session today I did find coolant on the ground, from my overflow tank. Not smooth at all and I was afraid of losing parts! off the engine! Really rough, never develops much power. However, when I flip to the B controller it runs great. Very smooth, responsive, no surging at all. I can run the engine through the full range of RPM. I noticed that a MAP of 22 is at about 5200 RPM. In may I got to around 4700 at a MAP of 22. I noted this because I was going to start with Mode 3 programming (at MAP 22). I could not get anywhere near MAP 22. Background: I had been making progress getting the EC2 tuned in May and early June. The A controller worked fine but the B controller would not function and the engine would die. TC had me remove the EC2 and send it back to him. He did find problems with the B side and repaired it. And set all the programming back to the defaults. I have dual crank position sensors, one dedicated to A controller, and one dedicated to the B controller. TC was kind enough to make the repairs before his trip to Colorado in mid-June. I got the unit back, reinstalled it last weekend, fired the engine up for a quick test last Tuesday night. Then yesterday (Saturday) I just ran the engine in my driveway for about an hour, playing with different settings. This is really when I noticed the engine running rough on A. I had recorded some of the values (mode 3/Mode 2) from the May tuning sessions. I reset mode 3 to that same setting (203) but it made no difference, engine rough. I swapped the crank sensor connections (A controller to B cps, and B controller to A cps), made no different. A was rough and B was smooth as a baby's behind. I have an EM2, but as I understand things, the EM2 really can only see values of the A controller. Even when flipped to B. And there is no way to back-copy from B to A. It is always A to B. Grrrrr I also instaled a wideband O2 sensor for the purpose of tuning. That seemed to work OK, but I never really got a chance to use it. So... I really need some ideas, suggestions, insights of what to try next. -- Mike ================================ Mike Fontenot Apex Consulting & Services LLC Lakewood, Colorado 303 / 731-6645 mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com ================================ ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CA0896.275D6830 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mike;

 

I’ll disagree with Bob on the surging – it generally means too lean.  On the other, I = agree; sounds like the timing is off; like way off.

Have you tried resetting all = settings on A to the defaults. View the setting for A; do they look right – = mixture table all zeros, pulse width something around 130 (just guessing), timing at = 0.   It should come back from Tracy with both controllers set to default, but maybe something = happened to mess up A.  It’s questionable that the timing adjust range = of the EC2 could take it so far off to get the behavior you’re observing; = but maybe in combination with too lean . . . .

 

Al G

 

 

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Fontenot
Sent: Sunday, July 19, = 2009 3:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] More = EC2 Tuning - Less progress - need help/ideas

 

Hi all,

Hope the summer has been going well for the rest of you. I had a detour = in my EC2 tuning, but am back at it.

Summary: EC2 on A controller has the engine surging at just about all = RPMs I could manage to attain. Kind of a "rummm.... rummmm..... rummm..".  I could only get the RPMs up to around 1800 (out of = a 5600 max) and the engine is knocking and banging, and even making a 'pffffut' = kind of noise. Sounded like air or something.  Maybe coolant spewing = out, because at the end of my session today I did find coolant on the ground, from my overflow tank.  Not smooth at all and I was afraid of losing parts! = off the engine! Really rough, never develops much power. 

However, when I flip to the B controller it runs great. Very smooth, responsive, no surging at all. I can run the engine through the full = range of RPM.  I noticed that a MAP of 22 is at about 5200 RPM.  In may = I got to around 4700 at a MAP of 22. I noted this because I was going to start = with Mode 3 programming (at MAP 22). I could not get anywhere near MAP 22. =

Background: I had been making progress getting the EC2 tuned in May and = early June. The A controller worked fine but the B controller would not = function and the engine would die. TC had me remove the EC2 and send it back to him. = He did find problems with the B side and repaired it. And set all the = programming back to the defaults.

I have dual crank position sensors, one dedicated to A controller, and = one dedicated to the B controller. TC was kind enough to make the repairs = before his trip to Colorado in mid-June. I got the unit back, reinstalled it = last weekend, fired the engine up for a quick test last Tuesday night. Then yesterday (Saturday) I just ran the engine in my driveway for about an = hour, playing with different settings. This is really when I noticed the = engine running rough on A.

I had recorded some of the values (mode 3/Mode 2) from the May tuning = sessions. I reset mode 3 to that same setting (203) but it made no difference, = engine rough.

I swapped the crank sensor connections (A controller to B cps, and B = controller to A cps), made no different. A was rough and B was smooth as a baby's = behind.

I have an EM2, but as I understand things, the EM2 really can only see = values of the A controller. Even when flipped to B.  And there is no way = to back-copy from B to A. It is always A to B. Grrrrr

I also instaled a wideband O2 sensor for the purpose of tuning. That = seemed to work OK, but I never really got a chance to use it.

So... I really need some ideas, suggestions, insights of what to try = next.

--
Mike

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting & Services LLC
Lakewood, Colorado
303 / 731-6645
mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

------=_NextPart_000_0013_01CA0896.275D6830--