X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao104.cox.net ([68.230.241.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3754205 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:50:41 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.42; envelope-from=rv-4mike@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmmtao104.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20090712025006.ZPWO17135.fed1rmmtao104.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:50:06 -0400 Received: from wills ([68.105.87.229]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id Eqq31c00A4wtUdQ04qq6dp; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:50:06 -0400 X-VR-Score: -150.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=_CslxnPgNYIA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=QdXCYpuVAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=kviXuzpPAAAA:8 a=UretUmmEAAAA:8 a=nUuTZ29dAAAA:8 a=DuMTdT712WYUMKsMbAgA:9 a=dhAFzjJJf_51EYP93W4A:7 a=HFk5IiGbtnRluMTP4dYp7v7ekwQA:4 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=W-lbjXBDQqRAGlUz:21 a=L2svswdY96UwjuSd:21 a=T9HLlPw-pc8uOiqhMCgA:9 a=R0BKXHB3hPQ8RSEZXvYA:7 a=z_qGF5uMdY-4NUy_e2MjbNO4RMEA:4 a=iVkDmfvjeKcA:10 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <1F1CC48FD29F40C2A4F8FF5461E74BDC@wills> From: "Mike Wills" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Narrowing in on Cause? [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:50:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01A1_01CA0260.C94308D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01A1_01CA0260.C94308D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy, Thanks for the reply. Last week I pulled the EC-2 to take a look at the = A/B input and see if you did anything there to suppress any sort of = spike and to see what would be involved in installing a bypass cap = there. While looking around I noted that the B controller chip was not = completely seated in its socket. One corner was sitting pretty high. I = pressed on it and it seated with a very clear snap. Jeff Whaley had = previously mentioned taking a look for this - good catch Jeff! While I had it out i went ahead and installed the bypass cap. I've been = out of town on a gliding trip so havent had time to get it reinstalled = and check it out. But I'm hopeful that this will be the cure since there = was an obvious problem. I'll let you all know a few hours testing time = down the road. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:54 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Narrowing in on Cause? [FlyRotary] Re: = frustrating couple of days On a rare check of email at the library here in Colorado and caught = this message. Mike, there is a chance that the inductive spike which happens when = selecting B (or return to A) is causing a problem. It might be = aggravated by relocating the selector switch. It is worth trying a = capacitor on that line (A/B select line) to suppress the spike. Tracy On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:01 AM, sboese wrote: Ed and Mike, Tracy would be the one to comment on this, if he was available, but = it is my understanding that both the A and B controllers are running all = the time. The A/B switch operates a relay that just changes which = controller=92s outputs are connected to the rest of the plane. When the = injector relay changes contacts there is the possibility for arcing = between the contacts depending on whether or not the injectors were = turned on at that time. Tracy said once that he had trouble with = corruption of the controllers probably due to this arcing and that was = the reason for the transient suppression diodes in the injector driver = circuitry. Changing to the snubber circuitry, possibly increased the = chance for the arcing problem but helped with injector response time. A = compromise like everything else. Moving the A/B switch shouldn=92t = cause a problem unless this has changed the relay response time and = caused an arcing problem. I don=92t know if the PCM has any circuitry = involved with this other than the switch itself. If it does, it=92s not = obvious. Is there any chance that any of Mike=92s injectors are drawing = more current than intended? Wiring for saturated when one or more of = them is peak and hold or otherwise damaged? That could cause arcing and = corruption problems. =20 How=92s that for speculation? Steve Boese =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 5:18 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Narrowing in on Cause? [FlyRotary] Re: = frustrating couple of days I think you may be narrowing in on the cause of your problem, Mike. Remoting the cold start and/or controller selection switch might = have unintended effects. IF this were the cause, my bet would be on the = controller select switch. I don=92t know what all that switch does =96 = but it clearly transfers control of the ignition and injectors to the B = controller (when so switched). So several High Power circuits are being = turned on (or switched over) to the B controller by a switch that is no = longer co-located on the program Controller PCB. Again, IF this = remoting of the switches could cause this, the question is HOW? Not certain of what de-bounce routine Tracy uses =96 whether = software or hardware =96 but if you turned on the switch to B = controller, I would presume the B controller immediately loads the MAP = into its working memory. I would assume the Map (as well as other data = such as staging) would normally reside in EEPROM and upon activation = one of the first things the B controller would do is to load this MAP = and data. Now, lets say a second voltage spike from the un-debounced = switch were sent to the B controller during the time it was loading the = fuel Map, it could cause the chip to do a reset during this interval. = That could result in part of the MAP or other data stored in EEPROM = getting corrupted. I don=92t know the internal coding for moving data = from EEPROM to working memory inside the EC2, I do know that for the = Serial data its code is in MIDI format.=20 Using the MIDI format means if only one bit is corrupted out of the = 256 bytes used to transmit the Map over the serial link =96 then all = data after that point is corrupted. That is one of the reasons I had to = give the Rs232 USART comm. Module in my EFISM chip top priority during = interrupts. I can lose any number of injector pulses and it not affect = its accuracy enough to display =96 but corruption of the most = significant bit of the High byte MIDI pair during the MAP serial = transmission and the remaining bytes are hopelessly corrupted. =20 I was pretty confident the problem was not caused by the EFISM as = it has no way to talk to the B controller, but glad to have it = confirmed. The only way I can see the EFISM affecting the B controller = is rather round about. You would have to 1st make the change to the A = MAP using the EFISM and then use the EC2 to copy the A MAP to the B MAP. = Even then you can not change the staging point using the EFISM only the = Map and ignition. A second thought is whether any =93ground currents=94 could be in = play. You have probably already done this, but try connecting an = alligator clamp (or your favorite attachment device) to the ground of = your controller switch and hook the other end to the grounding stud on = the EC2. If a ground circuit current/voltage was playing a role this = might eliminate it. Good luck on your trouble shooting. Don=92t give up =96 I think you = may be on the right track. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:37 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days So I vented to you guys, lost some sleep last night pondering this, = wasted more time today thinking about it, and then went back to the = airport to check things out. I had previously made all of the changes Tracy recommended in case = there was an issue with ground or supply noise. I didnt believe that was = the problem before, but with no better ideas went ahead and made the = changes. I'm now pretty sure that the electrical system is solid. Another possibility was that there was something about the EFISM = installation that caused this problem. Not sure how this could be the = case but the EFISM does have the capability to write to the MCT, so = maybe something was getting scrambled in the process? I disconnected the EFISM. And the EFISM was disconnected yesterday = when this latest problem occured, so its not the cause. Yesterday just = before I quit in disgust I reconnected the EFISM and captured the MCT to = make sure it hadnt been corrupted. It looked fine and thats why it was = so puzzling. Today when I started the engine it was clearly still screwed up. I = put the EFISM in EC2 monitor mode and immediately saw the problem. This = latest problem was due to the fact that my A controller injector staging = point had been corrupted and set to 12" MAP. The engine sure wont idle = on 4 injectors! I reset the staging point to where it belongs and the = engine is back to running as it should. I now have 5 known episodes of spontaneous changes to the EC2 = (possibly more). The first time the staging point was erased and the = secondaries wouldnt come on. The next 3 cases (twice in the past couple = of days) the B controller lost its program (since I dont have a way to = view the B MCT I dont actually know whats happening here, just that the = engine immediately dies when I flip to B). And then this last episode = with the staging point resetting to 12". I say there may have actually = been more cases because my engine has never really ran well on the B = controller after doing an A to B copy. But it does run - usually. So Ed asks is there an action or sequence of actions that may be = related? Well the common thread here is switching to B. I ran this = engine for about 20 hours of ground testing before I noted the first = instance of this occuring. And this coincides with when I started = actually flying the airplane - and routinely switching to B as part of = my pre takeoff checklist. Then I stopped flying about 4 months ago to = make all of these changes and further tune the engine. During this time = I dont think I ever switched to B and noted no problems. This past = weekend I started prepping to fly and went through my typical pre = takeoff prep and once again problems. Started troubleshooting by = routinely checking the B controller and once again corrupted the EC2, = this time the staging point. Since my most consistent indicator of a change is corruption of the = B MCT its hard to say for sure, but if i can force the staging point = screw up a few times by switching to B I'll be convinced. I should note = that my install is not standard for the EC2 PCM. I removed the A/B = switch, Cold Start switch, and Coil Test switch from the PCM and remoted = them to my instrument panel. Tracy noted this as an optional way to do = things in my EC2 manual. I dont recall how Tracy implements these = switches, but I assume they are SPST to a pullup resistor on the EC2. I = dont know if he has any circuitry to de-bounce or noise filter the = switch input? I dont even know for sure that this is the cause but seems = to be the most reasonable explanation at this point. Stay tuned. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 6:15 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days Mike, its got to be frustrating to have it run well for a couple = of months and just when you have convinced yourself the problem is = gone, it comes back. I presume there is nothing (no action, sequence of actions) that = you can think of having taken recently - any different than you have = done during the months the engine ran well that you can think of. = Nothing different perhaps in getting ready for another flight? Since the fuel map is stored in non-volute memory, it=92s hard to = figure out how it is being re-written or destroyed. Normally (as you = know) access to EEPROM on a chip is a rather non-trivial process. = Since the A and B controller are two different chips, I suppose there = could be a problem with the B chip =96 but, while that does happen, = it=92s pretty rare. Have not had one myself (yet). You are able to copy over the A MAP to the B MAP and it apparently = does the copy, but then something causes it to be re-written with = garbage. You do not have Auto tune and I presume you do not attempt to = change the B MAP =96 but it changes on its own. It sounds as it the = changes to B happen whether you have selected B controller or not =96 is = that correct. Or does it only happen when you are using the B = controller or can you tell. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike Wills Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:10 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] frustrating couple of days I havent flown my RV since a couple of cases of lost data in the = EC2 back in february. Spent the last few months making a bunch of mods, = some suggested by Tracy, others were things that I thought might = increase long term reliability. Also had to fix leaking fuel tanks in = the ensuing period. Been working up toward renewing flight testing. Engine has been = running really well for the last few months. Thought that the problem = was cured, though not clear how. Then on saturday found that once again = my B controller had lost all data. Engine wouldnt run at any throttle = setting on B. Restored the B controller by copying A > B. Last night after work ground ran the engine for about 30 minutes = at various throttle settings and it ran as good as always. Also ran fine = on the B controller. Tonight after work I fired it up. Ran fine initially. After about = 15 minutes noted some minor surging at a couple of throttle settings = below 2000 RPM. Also noticed that in this RPM range where the mixture = had previously been fine, my mixture monitor is off the scale lean. = Slowly got worse, to the point that it wouldnt idle at what was = previously a solid 1350RPM. Couldnt get it to run at all below 1500, = everything between 1500 and about 3000 RPM pretty rough. Everything over = 3000 is fine. No idea what caused this change. I put the airplane away = and walked away in disgust. I'm back to where I was a year ago and I'm = just about fed up with this thing. Mike Wills RV-4 N144MW __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_01A1_01CA0260.C94308D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tracy,
 
 Thanks for the reply. Last week I = pulled the=20 EC-2 to take a look at the A/B input and see if you did anything there = to=20 suppress any sort of spike and to see what would be involved in = installing a=20 bypass cap there.
 
While looking around I noted that the B = controller=20 chip was not completely seated in its socket. One corner was sitting = pretty=20 high. I pressed on it and it seated with a very clear snap. Jeff Whaley = had=20 previously mentioned taking a look for this - good catch = Jeff!
 
While I had it out i went ahead and = installed the=20 bypass cap. I've been out of town on a gliding trip so havent had time = to get it=20 reinstalled and check it out. But I'm hopeful that this will be the cure = since=20 there was an obvious problem. I'll let you all know a few hours testing = time=20 down the road.
 
Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy=20 Crook
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 = 9:54=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Narrowing in on=20 Cause? [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days

On a rare check of email at the library here in Colorado and = caught this=20 message.
 
Mike,  there is a chance that the inductive spike which = happens when=20 selecting B (or return to A) is causing a problem.  It might be=20 aggravated by relocating the selector switch.   It is = worth=20 trying a capacitor on that line (A/B select line)  to = suppress=20 the spike.
 
Tracy

On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 9:01 AM, sboese <sboese@uwyo.edu>=20 wrote:

Ed and=20 Mike,

 

Tracy = would be the=20 one to comment on this, if he was available, but it is my = understanding that=20 both the A and B controllers are running all the time.  The A/B = switch=20 operates a relay that just changes which controller=92s outputs are = connected=20 to the rest of the plane.  When the injector relay changes = contacts=20 there is the possibility for arcing between the contacts depending = on=20 whether or not the injectors were turned on at that time.  = Tracy said=20 once that he had trouble with corruption of the controllers probably = due to=20 this arcing and that was the reason for the transient suppression = diodes in=20 the injector driver circuitry.  Changing to the snubber = circuitry,=20 possibly increased the chance for the arcing problem but helped with = injector response time.  A compromise like everything = else. =20 Moving the A/B switch shouldn=92t cause a problem unless this has = changed the=20 relay response time and caused an arcing problem.  I don=92t = know if the=20 PCM has any circuitry involved with this other than the switch = itself. =20 If it does, it=92s not obvious.  Is there any chance that any = of Mike=92s=20 injectors are drawing more current than intended?   Wiring = for=20 saturated when one or more of them is peak and hold or otherwise=20 damaged?  That could cause arcing and corruption = problems. =20

 

How=92s = that for=20 speculation?

 

Steve = Boese =20

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed = Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 = 5:18=20 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Narrowing in on Cause? [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating = couple of=20 days

 

I think = you may be=20 narrowing in on the cause of your problem, Mike.

 

Remoting = the cold=20 start and/or controller selection switch might have unintended = effects. IF=20 this were the cause, my bet would be on the controller select = switch. =20 I don=92t know what all that switch does =96 but it clearly = transfers control of=20 the ignition and injectors to the B controller (when so = switched).  So=20 several High Power circuits are being turned on (or switched over) = to the B=20 controller by a switch that is no longer co-located on the program=20 Controller PCB.  Again, IF this remoting of the switches could = cause=20 this, the question is HOW?

 

Not = certain of what=20 de-bounce routine Tracy uses =96 whether software or hardware =96 = but if you=20 turned on the switch to B controller, I would presume the B = controller=20 immediately loads the MAP into its working memory.  I would = assume the=20 Map (as well as other data such as staging)  would normally = reside in=20 EEPROM and upon activation one of the first things the B controller = would do=20 is to load this MAP and data.  Now, lets say a second voltage = spike=20 from the un-debounced switch were sent to the B controller during = the time=20 it was loading the fuel Map, it could cause the chip to do a reset = during=20 this interval.  That could result in part of the MAP or other = data=20 stored in EEPROM getting corrupted. I don=92t know the internal = coding for=20 moving data from EEPROM to working memory inside the EC2,  I do = know=20 that for the Serial data its code is in MIDI format. =

 

Using the = MIDI=20 format means if only one bit is corrupted out of the 256 bytes used = to=20 transmit the Map over the serial link =96 then all data after that = point is=20 corrupted.  That is one of the reasons I had to give the Rs232 = USART=20 comm. Module in my EFISM chip top priority during interrupts.  = I can=20 lose any number of injector pulses and it not affect its accuracy = enough to=20 display =96 but corruption of the most significant bit of the High = byte MIDI=20 pair during the MAP serial transmission and the remaining bytes are=20 hopelessly corrupted. 

 

 I = was pretty=20 confident the problem was not caused by the EFISM as it has no way = to talk=20 to the B controller, but glad to have it confirmed.  The only = way I can=20 see the EFISM affecting the B controller is rather round = about.  =20 You would have to 1st make the change to the A MAP using = the=20 EFISM and then use the EC2 to copy the A MAP to the B MAP.  = Even then=20 you can not change the staging point using the EFISM only the Map = and=20 ignition.

 

A second = thought is=20 whether any =93ground currents=94 could be in play.  You have = probably=20 already done this, but try connecting an alligator clamp (or your = favorite=20 attachment device) to the ground of your controller switch and hook = the=20 other end to the grounding stud on the EC2.  If a ground = circuit=20 current/voltage was playing a role this might eliminate=20 it.

 

Good luck = on your=20 trouble shooting.  Don=92t give up =96 I think you may be on = the right=20 track.

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A=20 N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= /P>

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike = Wills
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 = 12:37=20 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days

 

So I vented to you = guys, lost=20 some sleep last night pondering this, wasted more time today = thinking about=20 it, and then went back to the airport to check things=20 out.

 

I had previously made = all of the=20 changes Tracy recommended in case there was an issue with ground or = supply=20 noise. I didnt believe that was the problem before, but with no = better ideas=20 went ahead and made the changes. I'm now pretty sure that the = electrical=20 system is solid.

 

Another possibility = was that=20 there was something about the EFISM installation that caused this = problem.=20 Not sure how this could be the case but the EFISM does have the = capability=20 to write to the MCT, so maybe something was getting scrambled in the = process?

 

I disconnected the = EFISM. And=20 the EFISM was disconnected yesterday when this latest problem = occured, so=20 its not the cause. Yesterday just before I quit in disgust I = reconnected the=20 EFISM and captured the MCT to make sure it hadnt been corrupted. It = looked=20 fine and thats why it was so puzzling.

 

Today when I started = the engine=20 it was clearly still screwed up. I put the EFISM in EC2 monitor mode = and=20 immediately saw the problem. This latest problem was due to the fact = that my=20 A controller injector staging point had been corrupted and set to = 12" MAP.=20 The engine sure wont idle on 4 injectors! I reset the staging point = to where=20 it belongs and the engine is back to running as it=20 should.

 

I now have 5 known = episodes of=20 spontaneous changes to the EC2 (possibly more). The first time the = staging=20 point was erased and the secondaries wouldnt come on. The next 3 = cases=20 (twice in the past couple of days) the B controller lost its program = (since=20 I dont have a way to view the B MCT I dont actually know whats = happening=20 here, just that the engine immediately dies when I flip to B). And = then this=20 last episode with the staging point resetting to 12". I say there = may have=20 actually been more cases because my engine has never really ran well = on the=20 B controller after doing an A to B copy. But it does run -=20 usually.

 

So Ed asks is there an = action or=20 sequence of actions that may be related? Well the common thread here = is=20 switching to B. I ran this engine for about 20 hours of ground = testing=20 before I noted the first instance of this occuring. And this = coincides with=20 when I started actually flying the airplane - and routinely = switching to B=20 as part of my pre takeoff checklist. Then I stopped flying about 4 = months=20 ago to make all of these changes and further tune the engine. During = this=20 time I dont think I ever switched to B and noted no problems. This = past=20 weekend I started prepping to fly and went through my typical pre = takeoff=20 prep and once again problems. Started troubleshooting by routinely = checking=20 the B controller and once again corrupted the EC2, this time the = staging=20 point.

 

Since my most = consistent=20 indicator of a change is corruption of the B MCT its hard to say for = sure,=20 but if i can force the staging point screw up a few times by = switching to B=20 I'll be convinced. I should note that my install is not standard for = the EC2=20 PCM. I removed the A/B switch, Cold Start switch, and Coil Test = switch from=20 the PCM and remoted them to my instrument panel. Tracy noted this as = an=20 optional way to do things in my EC2 manual. I dont recall how Tracy=20 implements these switches, but I assume they are SPST to a pullup = resistor=20 on the EC2. I dont know if he has any circuitry to de-bounce or = noise filter=20 the switch input? I dont even know for sure that this is the cause = but seems=20 to be the most reasonable explanation at this point. Stay=20 tuned.

 

Mike=20 Wills

RV-4=20 N144MW

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Ed Anderson

To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft

Sent:=20 Wednesday, July 01, 2009 6:15 AM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days

 

Mike, = its got to=20 be frustrating to have it run well for a couple of months and just = when=20 you have convinced  yourself the problem is gone, it comes=20 back.

 

I = presume there=20 is nothing (no action, sequence of actions) that you can think of = having=20 taken recently - any different than you have done during the = months the=20 engine ran well that you can think of.  Nothing different = perhaps in=20 getting ready for another flight?

 

Since = the fuel=20 map is stored in non-volute memory, it=92s hard to figure out how = it is=20 being re-written or destroyed.  Normally (as you know) access = to=20 EEPROM on a chip is a rather non-trivial process.  =  Since the A=20 and B controller are two different chips, I suppose there could be = a=20 problem with the B chip =96 but, while that does happen, it=92s = pretty=20 rare.  Have not had one myself (yet).

 

You are = able to=20 copy over the A MAP to the B MAP and it apparently does the copy, = but then=20 something causes it to be re-written with garbage.  You do = not have=20 Auto tune and I presume you do not attempt to change the B MAP =96 = but it=20 changes on its own.  It sounds as it the changes to B happen = whether=20 you have selected B controller or not =96 is that correct.  = Or does it=20 only happen when you are using the B controller or can you=20 tell.

 

 

Ed

 

Ed=20 Anderson

Rv-6A=20 N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews,=20 NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html<= /P>

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Mike = Wills
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, = 2009 12:10=20 AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] frustrating couple of days

 

I havent flown my RV = since a=20 couple of cases of lost data in the EC2 back in february. Spent = the last=20 few months making a bunch of mods, some suggested by Tracy, others = were=20 things that I thought might increase long term reliability. Also = had to=20 fix leaking fuel tanks in the ensuing = period.

 

Been working up = toward=20 renewing flight testing. Engine has been running really well for = the last=20 few months. Thought that the problem was cured, though not clear=20 how. Then on saturday found that once again my B controller = had lost=20 all data. Engine wouldnt run at any throttle setting on B. = Restored the B=20 controller by copying A > B.

 

Last night after = work ground=20 ran the engine for about 30 minutes at various throttle settings = and it=20 ran as good as always. Also ran fine on the B=20 controller.

 

Tonight after work I = fired it=20 up. Ran fine initially. After about 15 minutes noted some minor = surging at=20 a couple of throttle settings below 2000 RPM. Also noticed that in = this=20 RPM range where the mixture had previously been fine, my mixture = monitor=20 is off the scale lean. Slowly got worse, to the point that it = wouldnt=20 idle at what was previously a solid 1350RPM. Couldnt get it to run = at all=20 below 1500, everything between 1500 and about 3000 RPM pretty = rough.=20 Everything over 3000 is fine. No idea what caused this change. I = put the=20 airplane away and walked away in disgust. I'm back to where I was = a year=20 ago and I'm just about fed up with this = thing.

 

Mike=20 Wills

RV-4=20 N144MW



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The message was checked by ESET NOD32=20 Antivirus.

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__________ Information from ESET = NOD32=20 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714)=20 __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 = Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

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