X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3753688 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:07:24 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.56; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from OMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.43]) by QMTA06.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Ehu31c0030vp7WLA6i6pB6; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:06:49 +0000 Received: from WschertzPC ([71.57.77.95]) by OMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Ei6n1c00223NHuF8Ri6nJr; Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:06:48 +0000 Message-ID: <86C36882D2494DEF9A16EBADFB4BC634@WschertzPC> From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Water Spray Pump Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 13:06:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CA0228.71297450" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CA0228.71297450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Time I chimed in. I have been testing with short flights trying to get = my temps in line. I cannot stay at full throttle beyond climbing to = ~2500, at which point I throttle back to 5600 - 6000 rpm, and bring the = speed up to 110 knots. Temps then stabilize below 200 - 205. As part of my diagnostics, I have always had a air pressure differential = measurement from my Blue Mountain (sigh) unit, and it would indicate ~3 = to max 4 inches of water pressure difference between the front of the = rad and behind it under the cowl. For further information, I have installed a temporary set of pressure = probes that run to a manometer in the cabin. This has told me the = following: 1. The entrance to the rad is getting good pressure 6-7 inches water = pressure, but 2. The exit is not functioning well enough, because I get 3-4 inches = pressure under the cowl. My theory as to why this is difficult to fully cool includes. 1. The cowl was designed for an air cooled engine, rejecting heat at 350 = cylinder head temperature, which is a bigger driving force than we have. 2. I used the two cowl inlets in the original cowl to supply the two = rads. 3. I have a third entrance for the oil cooler, so I have ~ 50% more = airflow to get out of the cowl. Bobby, I would install some manometers to see if it is a problem getting = the air in -- or out before you modify your cowling. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase I testing ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bobby J. Hughes=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:44 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Water Spray Pump=20 Like Dennis I am having to throttle back and reduce boost after = reaching pattern altitude. Flight testing this week showed I can = stabilize my oil temp at 220F at 130 mph, 6400 rpm and 30" MP. Air Delta = T after my radiators averaged 81F. This power setting gives a 600 fpm = climb and about 185-190 HP. Not very impressive for a RV10. My initial = climb out was around 1000-1250 fpm with OAT at 95F. Water temp = stabilized at 200F. My oil to water exchanger was transferring 43F to = the water.=20 My total inlet area is 58 sqin and 21% of core face. The numbers = indicate that opening my inlet area to 68 sqin or 25% should allow me to = cool my full net 238 HP. Before starting major fiberglass work at 102 F = I am thinking of testing a super fine mist on the radiators. I would = like to see what my oil temps would be if I can drop the water temp by = 10-20 degrees. The pump information attached is a 15 bar pump and meets = the specification for continuous use and is safe to run dry. It's an = espresso machine type pump but does not have on\off time limitations. = Other pumps like his have a 1/1 or 2/1 On/Off in minutes for cooling. = If lowering my water temps to 180-185F has a positive effect on oil = temps then I will open my radiator duct this fall when it's cooler. = Besides, I have another test for this pump. I don't have an intercooler = and having a 1 pound 15 bar pump will tempt me to test manifold water = injections after my super charger.=20 Bobby RV-10 SC Renesis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CA0228.71297450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Time I chimed in. I have been testing = with short=20 flights trying to get my temps in line. I cannot stay at full throttle = beyond=20 climbing to ~2500, at which point I throttle back to 5600 - 6000 rpm, = and bring=20 the speed up to 110 knots. Temps then stabilize below 200 - = 205.
 
As part of my diagnostics, I have = always had a air=20 pressure differential measurement from my Blue Mountain (sigh) unit, and = it=20 would indicate ~3 to max 4 inches of water pressure difference between = the front=20 of the rad and behind it under the cowl.
 
For further information, I have = installed a=20 temporary set of pressure probes that run to a manometer in the cabin. = This has=20 told me the following:
 
1. The entrance to the rad is getting = good pressure=20 6-7 inches water pressure, but
2. The exit is not functioning well = enough, because=20 I get 3-4 inches pressure under the cowl.
 
My theory as to why this is difficult = to fully cool=20 includes.
 
1. The cowl was designed for an air = cooled engine,=20 rejecting heat at 350 cylinder head temperature, which is a bigger = driving force=20 than we have.
2. I used the two cowl inlets in the = original cowl=20 to supply the two rads.
3. I have a third entrance for the oil = cooler, so I=20 have ~ 50% more airflow to get out of the cowl.
 
Bobby, I would install some manometers = to see if it=20 is a problem getting the air in -- or out before you modify your=20 cowling.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase I = testing
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bobby J. = Hughes=20
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 = 10:44=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Water = Spray Pump=20

Like = Dennis I am=20 having to throttle back and reduce boost after reaching pattern = altitude.=20 Flight testing this week showed I can stabilize my oil temp at 220F at = 130=20 mph, 6400 rpm and 30" MP. Air Delta T after my radiators averaged = 81F. This power setting gives a 600 fpm climb and about 185-190 = HP. Not=20 very impressive for a RV10. My initial climb out was around = 1000-1250 fpm=20 with OAT at 95F. Water temp stabilized at 200F.  My oil = to=20 water exchanger was transferring 43F to the water. =
 
My = total inlet=20 area is 58 sqin and 21% of core face. The numbers indicate that = opening my=20 inlet area to 68 sqin or 25% should allow me to cool my full net = 238=20 HP.  Before starting major fiberglass work at 102 F I am thinking = of=20 testing a super fine mist on the radiators. I would like to see = what my=20 oil temps would be if I can drop the water temp by 10-20 degrees. = The=20 pump information attached is a 15 bar pump and meets the specification = for=20 continuous use and is safe to run dry. It's an espresso machine type = pump but=20 does not have on\off time limitations. Other pumps like his have = a 1/1 or=20 2/1 On/Off in minutes for cooling.  If lowering my water temps to = 180-185F has a positive effect on oil temps then I will open my = radiator duct=20 this fall when it's cooler. Besides, I have another test for this = pump. I=20 don't have an intercooler and having a 1 pound 15 bar pump will tempt = me to=20 test manifold water injections after my super charger. =
 
Bobby
RV-10 SC=20 Renesis.
 


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