X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3753001 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:10:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.78.142; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id n6ANA0vc015308 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:10:01 -0400 Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v40_r1.5.) id q.c94.49b6ee32 (37033) for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-ma01.mx.aol.com (smtprly-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.207.140]) by cia-db02.mx.aol.com (v124.15) with ESMTP id MAILCIADB023-5c454a57ca433c1; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:09:55 -0400 Received: from FWM-D26 (fwm-d26.webmail.aol.com [205.188.162.2]) by smtprly-ma01.mx.aol.com (v124.15) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYMA013-5c454a57ca433c1; Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:09:55 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Interested in cog-belt PRSUs? Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:09:55 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 66.253.96.220 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wrjjrs@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CBCFCAAC159DBF_1110_2906_FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 43735-STANDARD Received: from 66.253.96.220 by FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com (205.188.162.2) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:09:55 -0400 Message-Id: <8CBCFCAAC0C1457-1110-13EA@FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO ----------MB_8CBCFCAAC159DBF_1110_2906_FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Bryan, The trouble with understanding the planetary is that you can get two diffe= rent directions and ratios, WITH THE SAME GEARS AND PARTS. It is the basic= s of how an automatic trans works. I hate trying to figure things out. You= can take the drive, (assuming you are driving the sun gear), from the pla= net carrier or the outer ring gear. The current RD-1C drives the prop from= the planet carrier, giving correct rotation and a 2.83:1 ratio. The 1-B= takes drive from the ring gear and turns opposite and has a 2.18:1 ratio,= clear as mud right? Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Winberry To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 3:35 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Interested in cog-belt PRSUs? Thanks George, I caught my math error, but that +1 thing still evades me a little. =C2=A0= There=E2=80=99s some good animation out there on the internet.=C2=A0 I=E2= =80=99ll need a little time to wrap my head around it. All I really care about is that my RD-1C makes me go fast in the forward= direction :>) BW =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of George Lendich Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 5:53 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Interested in cog-belt PRSUs? =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bryan, I understand your confusion, as I had to get my head around this stuff a= long time ago. =C2=A0 That's 85 minus 45 =3D 36 divided by 2 =3D 18 which is the number of=C2=A0planet teeth. I see what you have done, you= have divided 85 by 45 - that's the overall ratio 1.8 then divided by 2 to= get .9. =C2=A0 There are=C2=A04 major=C2=A0components of the planetary the ring gear, the= planet gear housing, the planet gear itself and the sun gear.I threw the= calculations for planet teeth as a bonus for those unfamiliar with the pr= ocess, thinking it may be confusing, but for the overall picture it's a ne= cessary part of a planetary system, as is the difference between holding= the planet housing as compared to holding the ring gear, the difference= here is + 1.=C2=A0 The + 1 is when you run the planetary opposite to the= crank. In our case we hold the ring gear to attain the +1. =C2=A0 Showing the reason for the +1 was necessary to show the comparison between= a 3 gear system (like the planetary 2.85) and the 2 gear system ( 1.8) li= ke the belt and pulleys/ sprockets.- which are very similar in ratio but= turn the opposite direction. Hope that helps!? =C2=A0 George ( down under)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 George you lost me with (81-45)/2=3D1.8 I get .9 Bryan =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of George Lendich Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 3:21 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Interested in cog-belt PRSUs? =C2=A0 Bernie, The calculations for ratio of this kind is (ring gear divided by sun gear)= . Using teeth numbers on the=C2=A0ring gear=C2=A0divided by the teeth number= s on the sun gear; If you had 81 teeth on the ring gear and 45 teeth on th= e sun gear i.e. (81/45=3D1.8). =C2=A0 Now if there were an intermediate gear as on the planetary i.e. planetary= gear - then the calculation for the planetary gear teeth. is; ring gear= minus=C2=A0sun gear divided by two i.e.( 81- 45)/2 =3D 18. As a planetary= =C2=A0runs with 3 gears, the prop runs the same way if the planetary is he= ld (in place) by the ring gear,=C2=A0 the calculations are 1.85 +1 =3D 2.8= 5:1 Ratio. =C2=A0 As the rotary runs anti-clockwise in out orientation ( from the rear of th= e motor forward ) we have a clockwise prop direction when using a planetar= y PSRU, with ring gear held. With the planet housing held it would run ant= i-clockwise and would be 1.8:1 =C2=A0 However we only have two gears (sprockets) in this belt PSRU=C2=A0so ir mu= st run in the direction the motor runs i.e. anti-clockwise. The ratio is= similar to the Ford planetary which is 1.85:1. I don't really know the numbers of the teeth on the belt PSRU sprockets bu= t used the numbers abovementioned as demonstration only. Hope that's clearer!?=C2=A0 George (down under) "With the rotary, that would mean an anti-clockwise prop rotation, view fr= om the cockpit, 1.8:1 is right on the mark as compared to the Ford planetary= reduction which is 2.85:1 with clockwise rotation i.e. 1.85+1. George (down under)." I am20totally confused about having two different ratios going from clockw= ise prop rotation to anti-clockwise for the same engine speed and prop spe= ed. I am way out of my depth here. HELP!!! =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Bernie ----------MB_8CBCFCAAC159DBF_1110_2906_FWM-D26.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Bryan,
The trouble with understanding the planetary is that you can get two diffe= rent directions and ratios, WITH THE SAME GEARS AND PARTS. It is the basic= s of how an automatic trans works. I hate trying to figure things out. You= can take the drive, (assuming you are driving the sun gear), from the pla= net carrier or the outer ring gear. The current RD-1C drives the prop from= the planet carrier, giving correct rotation and a 2.83:1 ratio. The 1-B= takes drive from the ring gear and turns opposite and has a 2.18:1 ratio,= clear as mud right?
Bill Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan Winberry <bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Fri, Jul 10, 2009 3:35 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Interested in cog-belt PRSUs?

Thanks George,
I caught my math er= ror, but that +1 thing still evades me a little.  There=E2=80=99s som= e good animation out there on the internet.  I=E2=80=99ll need a litt= le time to wrap my head around it.
All I really care= about is that my RD-1C makes me go fast in the forward direction :>)
BW
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich
Sent: Friday, July 10, 200= 9 5:53 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Interested in cog-belt PRSUs?
 
 
Bryan,
I understand your confusion, as I had to get= my head around this stuff a long time ago.
 
That's 85 minus 45 =3D 36 divided by 2 =3D1= 8 which is the number of planet teeth. I see what you have done, you= have divided 85 by 45 - that's the overall ratio 1.8 then divided by 2 to= get .9.
 
There are 4 major components of the= planetary the ring gear, the planet gear housing= , the planet gear itself and the sun gear.I threw the calculations for planet teeth as a bonus for= those unfamiliar with the process, thinking it may be confusing, but for= the overall picture it's a necessary part of a planetary system, as is th= e difference between holding the planet housing as compared to holding the= ring gear, the difference here is + 1.  The + 1 is when you run the= planetary opposite to the crank. In our case we hold the ring gear to att= ain the +1.
 
=3D0 D
Showing the reason for the +1 was necessary= to show the comparison between a 3 gear system (like the planetary 2.85)= and the 2 gear system ( 1.8) like the belt and pulleys/ sprockets.- which= are very similar in ratio but turn the opposite direction.<= /div>
Hope that helps!?
 
George ( down under) 
 
George you lost me= with (81-45)/2=3D1.8
I get .9
Bryan
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich
Sent: Friday, July 10, 200= 9 3:21 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Interested in cog-belt PRSUs?
 
Bernie,
The calculations for rati o of this kind is (ring gear divided by sun gear). Using teeth numbers on= the ring gear divided by the teeth numbers on the sun gear; If= you had 81 teeth on the ring gear and 45 teeth on the sun gear i.e. (81/4= 5=3D1.8).
 
Now if there were an intermediate gear as on= the planetary i.e. planetary gear - then the calculation for the planetar= y gear teeth. is; ring gear minus sun gear divided by two i.e.( 81-= 45)/2 =3D 18. As a planetary runs with 3 gears, the prop runs the sa= me way if the planetary is held (in place) by the ring gear,  the cal= culations are 1.85 +1 =3D 2.85:1 Ratio.
 
As the rotary runs anti-clockwise in out orie= ntation ( from the rear of the motor forward ) we have a clockwise prop di= rection when using a planetary PSRU, with ring gear held. With the planet= housing held it would run anti-clockwise and would be 1.8:1
 
However we only have two gears (sprockets) in= this belt PSRU so ir must run in the direction= the motor runs i.e. anti-clockwise. The ratio is similar to the Ford plan= etary which is 1.85:1.
I don't really know the numbers of the teeth= on the belt PSRU sprockets but used the numbers abovementioned as demonst= ration only.
Hope that's clearer!? 
George (down under)
"With the rotary, that would mean an anti-clo= ckwise prop rotation, view from
the cockpit, 1.8:1 is right on the mark as compared to the Ford planetary=
reduction which is 2.85:1 with clockwise rotation i.e. 1.85+1.
George (down under)."

I am totally confused about having two different ratios going from clockwi= se prop rotation to anti-clockwise for the same engine speed and prop spee= d. I am way out of my depth here. HELP!!!      &n= bsp;Bernie

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