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From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 06:26:28 -0400
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Intermittent is the pits for sure.  I prefer for something to stay broken so
I can determine what it is and fix it.

Is there any  association of the problem with the two simulation modes of
the EC2?  You don't perhaps trigger them in prep for flight and not
otherwise 0r vice versa?

Did you do your ignition check with the B controller this time while
switching from A to B controller??  Might try doing that while trying to
induce the problem.


The B controller does not have the temperature sensor, so you would probably
get a different manual mixture setting on A and B for the same condition.
The B mixture setting having to compensate for the Temperature factor where
its done automatically with the A controller.

I can tell you do not believe remoting your switch is a factor, however, it
is one thing on your installation that may be different than most.  Does not
necessarily mean it's the problem, but I would not discount it completely.  


I know you have been over your wiring several times - have you had a second
party walk it through with you - sometimes its easy to overlook your own
mistakes.  Although, I really can't imagine a miswiring that would only
cause a malfunction some of the time but not all the time.


Dave does bring up a good point - could it be anything else associated
getting ready for a flight - that you normally do no do for ground runs?  I
know-could be, might be, should be... a lot of factors in that basket.


Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:57 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days

Without knowing details of Tracy's design, hard to say what the real 
consequences of relocating the switches is. Tracy did explicitly state in 
the manual I got with my EC2 that relocating the switches is an acceptible 
option. In any case relocating the switches should not result in any sort of

a "ground loop".

Nothing much to report today. On my first start today the engine quit when I

switched to the B controller. I had to do a A > B copy to get the engine to 
run on B. Test ran for another 1.5 hours or so with multiple starts, 
toggling back and forth between A and B, but could not force it to fail 
again. Which is kinda disappointing. But thats the nature of an 
intermittant, isnt it?

About the only thing I can report is that the engine runs richer throughout 
the RPM range on B than it does on A. A is setup so that its at stoich with 
the mixture knob at 12:00. On B the mixture knob needs to be at 9:00 for the

same indication on the mixture gauge.

Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Whaley" <jwhaley@datacast.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 10:07 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days


I believe the ground for the controller unit is made through the DB15 wire 
harness to the EC2; by moving the A/B switch you will have lengthened this 
ground loop ... maybe try a wire from Controller PCB common to ground of 
remote A/B switch.
Is it possible for you to put the A/B switch back to original position?
Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On 
Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:53 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days

Mike, per discussion about possible de-bouncing problem.  Might try sticking
a 0.01 ufd capacitor from your Controller Switch to Ground - just to
eliminate debouncing as the potential problem.

Ed

Ed Anderson

Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered

Matthews, NC

eanderson@carolina.rr.com

http://www.andersonee.com

http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html

http://www.flyrotary.com/

http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm


-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
Behalf Of Mike Wills
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 12:09 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days

Minor correction. Its not that I'm only seeing a problem with the B
controller. Its that it appears that the problem occurs when I switch to B,
but in the 2 cases where the staging point was corrupted, the corrupt data
was on the A controller.

I've been all through the power and ground system. Multiple times. When I
first noted the problem and emailed Tracy about it he suspected ground
noise. After describing my electrical system to him he made two suggestions:
1)  I implemented a single point ground even though I have a metal airframe.

I wanted to avoid ground currents getting into the radio and intercom. Due
to CG issues my batteries ended up in the baggage compartment so the ground
connection from the batteries to the single point ground ended up being
about 8' of #0 cable. Tracy recommended eliminating this cable and tying the

battery ground terminals to chassis ground as close as possible to the
batteries. I've done this.
2) My ignition coils were also connected to the single point ground through
about 3' of #14 wire. Tracy indicated that the coils are the greatest
potential noise makers on the airplane and recommended grounding this to the

airframe or engine block as close as possible to the coils. I've done this.
I've reviewed all of my wiring to make sure that things that should be
shielded are and to be sure that noisy wires are seperated from sensitive
ones. There were no obvious problems found in my original install in this
regard, but I did move a couple of wires to gain even more seperation.

So as I said, I believe the power and ground system in the airplane are
sound. I doubt that remoting the A/B switch, or something wrong with the
switch itself, is what is causing this, but I do believe that something is
going on in the act of switching from A to B that is causing the problem.
I'll try to force it in my testing today.

Mike Wills
RV-4 N144MW

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "thomas walter" <roundrocktom@yahoo.com>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 7:26 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: frustrating couple of days


Ed,

Odd electrical trivia.   Older eeproms were rated at 3.3V, so below 2.7V
they ignored any read or write information.

We had a uC that would start "jabbering" on the data and clock lines when
power was caming up.   Since reset occurred once power was good, it was
never an issue.   Problem is the eeprom manufactures started shipping parts
that were functional from 1.8V to 3.3V.  So once power was at 1.7V, it
accepted writes, corrupting the eeprom. Just to drive the engineers crazy
only some lots and some devices 'jibbered' away.   Yes, amazing I still have

any hair left. :)

That is pretty rare, but has happened.

Yes, Mike -- Interesting you're only seeing an issue with the "B"
controller. Still triple check the power, grounds, and rest of the
connections.

> Since the fuel map is stored in non-volute memory, it's hard to figure out

> how it is being re-written or destroyed. Normally (as you know) access to
> EEPROM on a chip is a rather non-trivial process. Since the A and B
> controller are two different chips, I suppose there could be a problem
> with the B chip - but, while that does happen, it's pretty rare. Have not
> had one myself (yet).


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