X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3680438 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:09:54 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.122; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090612140915678.TKZ22702@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:09:15 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Water temps Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:09:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C9EB45.D89FEC80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AcnrX68qnnpNAETeQ+Ku5yV5F/VkUAAByHtQ In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Message-Id: <20090612140915678.TKZ22702@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C9EB45.D89FEC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Point taken, Lynn. I guess I was impressed John could run it for 55 minutes and only get 235F. If I run mine for over 2-3 minutes at WOT my temps would already be climbing over 200F. While not necessarily recommending it for others, my red line for oil is 200F (into block) and 220F coolant (out of block). I normally do not stay at these temps beyond 2-3 minutes during take off and initial climbout. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:14 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Water temps Allow me to speculate: I suggest that watertemps above 210 are out of bounds. Thus it should be looked at as something you got away with, not a number to look for in normal operation. I would retorque the stack cold if I had seen those numbers. (235) Here is some dyno stuff for a 12A bridgeported engine with two 36MM chokes in a Weber carb. 6500 RPM (because there is no point in testing a racing engine below that), and even then it is to put up a starting point for a curve. Torque 139.6 foot pounds. HP 173.3 EGTs 1515 front 1491 rear BSFC .666 (the devils own) oil temp 162 (160 is ideal) Above 160 costs power due to rotor face temperatures. Oil pressure 99.9 (relief set at 110 pounds) Water temp is always 180 controlled by the cooling system on the dyno. Air/fuel 12.3 (slightly rich is fine as it helps cooling and sealing) I would expect to get as much as 10% more power from a 13B. Lynn E. Hanover Interesting questions: Is that data at full throttle? You can hold cruise RPM at an A/F of 15? Today I ran the engine .9 hour, .7th's static at 4700 rpm - 13B, Marcotte 2 - l redrive Water temp 235 OAT 61 Spring hasn't arrived above the 44th parallel oil temp 215 yet Exh. temp 1500 Prop speed 2350 MP 28 oil pres 75 air - fuel 15 to 1 fuel press 42 .2 hr high speed taxi Water temp 188 oil temp 160 Ex temp 1400 Prop speed 2500 MP 28 fuel press 42 The static engine run temperatures climbed quite a bit with the cowling on and working on the programming I didn't notice that this was happening, but they went right down when I idled back. I will have to pull the cowling in the morning and check the redrive, it appears the seal is leaking on the flywheel side. With no support from Marcotte, I may have too much 80w in the gearbox. I believe that the temperatures look good for flight. JohnD ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C9EB45.D89FEC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Point taken, Lynn.

 

I guess I was impressed John could = run it for 55 minutes and only get 235F.  If I run mine for over 2-3 = minutes at WOT my temps would already be climbing over 200F.  While not = necessarily recommending it for others, my red line for oil is 200F (into block) and = 220F coolant (out of block).  I normally do not stay at these temps beyond 2-3 = minutes during take off and initial climbout.  =

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Lynn Hanover
Sent: Friday, June 12, = 2009 9:14 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Water temps

 

Allow me to speculate:

I suggest that watertemps above 210 are out of bounds. Thus it should be looked at = as something you got away with, not a number to look for in normal = operation. I would retorque the stack cold if I had seen those numbers. = (235)

Here is some dyno stuff for a 12A bridgeported engine with two 36MM chokes in a Weber = carb.

6500 RPM (because there is no point in testing a racing engine below that), and = even then it is to put up a starting point for a = curve.

Torque 139.6 foot pounds.

HP = 173.3

EGTs 1515 front 1491 rear

BSFC .666 (the devils own)

oil temp 162 (160 is ideal) Above 160 costs power due to rotor face = temperatures.

Oil pressure 99.9 (relief set at 110 = pounds)

Water temp is always 180 controlled by the cooling system on the dyno. =

Air/fuel  12.3  (slightly rich is fine as it helps cooling and = sealing)

I would expect to get as much as 10% more power from a = 13B.

Lynn E. Hanover

Interesting questions: Is that data at full throttle?

You can hold cruise RPM at an A/F of 15?

 

 

Today I ran the engine .9 hour, .7th's static at 4700 rpm -  13B, Marcotte 2 - = l redrive

 

Water temp         235           &nbs= p;   OAT  = 61            Spring hasn't arrived above the 44th = parallel

oil temp           &nb= sp;  215           &nbs= p;            = ;            =     yet

Exh. temp         1500

Prop speed        = 2350

MP    &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;     28

oil pres           &nb= sp;    75

air - fuel         15 to = 1

fuel press           &n= bsp; 42

 

.2 hr high speed taxi

 

Water temp         = 188

oil temp               160

Ex temp           &nb= sp; 1400

Prop speed         2500

MP    &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;       28

fuel press           &n= bsp;   42

 

The static engine run temperatures climbed quite a bit with the cowling on and = working on the programming I didn't notice that this was happening, but they went = right down when I idled back.

I will have to pull the cowling in the morning and check the redrive, it appears the = seal is leaking on the flywheel side.  With no support from Marcotte, I = may have too much 80w in the gearbox.  I believe that the temperatures = look good for flight.  JohnD

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