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Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 20:20:45 -0500
From: Dave <david.staten@gmail.com>
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To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Injectors quandary.
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http://www.wwrturbo.com/ 50 lbs/hr 520 cc low impedance.

A few comments from the peanut gallery..

Hi Gang,.. I'm Dave.. Chris's former build partner.. some of you may 
remember me.. I simply did not have the finances to continue 
participating in Chris's build so I simply walked away after explaining 
my reasons to Chris. He's still gracious enough to let me have hangar 
access to his project, and I am still gracious enough to leave some of 
my heavy tools out there (granted, not as many of my tools there now as 
originally, but anything I have is available with a call) I'm still here 
on the list and I still follow most of what comes across it. And I still 
believe in rotary power, and want to build my own plane someday when 
times are better for me.

I still have every email receipt regarding every purchase I ever made 
for the project, including the injectors. (and Mistral Intake, several 
radios, most of the original avionics, etc)..and have them to refer to 
for any questions about where they came from..

I bought the "mis-matched" injectors at a time where I intended to 
integrate a STOCK mazda 13B throttle into a custom intake of our own 
building. Mazda's operating theory was about having small injectors on 
the "primaries" that could be finely controlled for idle and low power, 
and larger injectors for the large bore secondary intake runners that 
could support high power. Given that we wanted to turbocharge the engine 
and develop well over 200 hp at altitudes over 10,000 feet, I did the 
math and bought injectors that would support that power level, without 
exceeding an 80% duty cycle, which was recommended by most everybody and 
everything I came across. So.. while to the casual observer this may 
appear mismatched.. I consider this a design /equip- to - mission item. 
While Chris was sanding and floxing and sanding... I was reading every 
single thing I could find on Turbos, Rotaries, Avionics, Injectors, Fuel 
Systems, Compressor Maps and everything else systems related I could 
come across. Every single thing I advocated for, bought, or attempted 
had a reason behind it, whether it was research based or experience of 
others (Cough - John Slade/Tracy Crook - Cough) based..

Since that injector purchase we chose to solve our intake problem by 
writing a check.. or in this case an international Money Order to 
Mistral in Switzerland. The intake arrived within a month, ground 
freight. The difference is a single, common large bore throttle body 
feeding 4 runners. Under the RWS Engine Controller, only 2 runners get 
fuel when staged, while the other 2 are only given fuel at higher 
throttle settings. But air flows through all 4 runners equally (actually 
more so through secondaries since those engine ports are larger, despite 
common bores on the intake). Maybe getting two smaller injectors for the 
secondaries will solve some of the issues Chris is seeing right now, but 
I am certain it will be at the expense of some top end performance.. 
admittedly it is performance we likely would not have used without being 
on continuous oxygen at altitude, but it will be a trade-off. At high 
end power settings under turbo at altitude there may be a problem. Since 
its going to fly Normally aspirated at first (at least that was the 
original plan) this may never manifest itself in that configuration.

The 520 cc injectors I bought came from Ebay, but were new. The receipt 
says they came from http://www.wwrturbo.com/ and were  50 lbs/hr 520 cc 
low impedance type. Its an active page. So in theory Chris should be 
able to buy matching 520 cc low imp injectors from that source. Had he 
called me or emailed me I would have gladly given this information to 
him, but honestly I don't get much communication anymore, and for the 
most part only know how his project is going from reading his postings 
here.

Glad to hear his radiator mounting scheme is working for him.. and hope 
he gets to fly it soon.
Dave


Christopher Barber wrote:
>   My former build helper originally found the injectors I have been 
> using.  The are seriously mismatched at about 550 cfm and 1600 cfm.  I 
> know the EC2 can compensate (perhaps with some difficulty due to the 
> extreme difference), but I am wanting to replace them all with about 
> 550ish injectors.  Perhaps it will help some of my leaning issues, 
> perhaps not..