X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.14) with ESMTP id 3672948 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:03:02 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from computername ([75.191.186.236]) by cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090605170222948.DCZG14139@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:02:22 +0000 From: "Ed Anderson" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Isolation diodes Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:02:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C9E5DD.DDFBF560" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Acnl+lu1jKq6KZGlQkSq8HKRNMKqiQABOTdw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20090605170222948.DCZG14139@cdptpa-omta02.mail.rr.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C9E5DD.DDFBF560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok, thanks, Al. I apparently misunderstood Tracy's comment - my isolation diode is (will be) between alternator and battery Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:26 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Isolation diodes Ed; I don't know your circuitry, but I don't think a diode isolating the alternator is a noise issue. Isolating the battery from the essential bus could be. Al G -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 7:10 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Isolation diodes Thanks, Tracy I was unaware (never thought about it) of the association - perhaps not having an isolation diode is one reason I never had any "Noise Problem" with the EC2 {:>) Thanks for the information Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:21 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Battery Isolation diodes Just one comment about the isolation diodes idea. I hate it. It's for my own selfish reason though. The diodes not only isolate potential faults, they isolate electrical noise from the battery which increases the noise on the rest of the system. Noise on systems with poor electrical system layout has been my number 1 headache. These diodes multiply the problem by at least a factor of two. If you insist on using the diodes, you might want to install a capacitor at your main power distribution point. Those big electrolytics that the monster car audio systems use would be ideal : ) The electrical systems guru (Bob K.) points out that batteries do not make a good noise absorber and that is technically true but I would counter that they are infinitely better than nothing at all. Tracy On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: Jim Maher was kind enough to convert the large DXF files of my electrical system to JPG so perhaps more of you can examine it. Recall I have removed the 2nd battery stuff - so ignore that on the diagrams. Also the diagram does not show any of the detailed EC2/injector/ignition wiring - follow Tracy's recommendations on that. As you will note there is no "isolation" diode between alternator and battery and also that the battery voltage holds the master relay closed. That is another change I must make. I must have decided (10+ years ago) that the battery would never fail - only the alternator. Clearly (now), without battery voltage (in my design) to hold the master relay closed - when the battery voltage fall to around 6-7 volts (in my case) the relay opens and all that good electrical power being produced by the perfectly good alternator - can not reach any part of the electrical system. Clearly NOT good as I could have continued to fly perfectly well with just the alternator juice. Your design is not going to be any better than the accuracy of your assumptions. Clearly some of my assumptions make 10 years ago definitely need revising. Ed The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: DIAG_3B.jpg DIAG_2B.jpg DIAG_1B.jpg Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C9E5DD.DDFBF560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok, thanks, Al.  I apparently misunderstood Tracy’s comment – my isolation diode  is (will be) between alternator = and battery

 

Ed

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Friday, June 05, = 2009 1:26 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Battery Isolation diodes

 

Ed;

 

I don’t know your = circuitry, but I don’t think a diode isolating the alternator is a noise issue.  Isolating the battery from the essential bus could = be.

 

Al G

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Friday, June 05, = 2009 7:10 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Battery Isolation diodes

 

Thanks, = Tracy

 

I was unaware = (never thought about it) of the association – perhaps not having an = isolation diode is one reason I never had any “Noise Problem” with the = EC2 {:>)

 

Thanks for the information

 

Ed<= o:p>

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Tracy = Crook
Sent: Friday, June 05, = 2009 10:21 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Battery Isolation diodes

 

Just one comment about the isolation diodes idea.  I hate it.  It's for my own selfish reason = though.  The diodes not only isolate potential faults, they isolate electrical noise = from the battery which increases the noise on the rest of the = system.   Noise on systems with poor electrical system layout has been my number 1 headache.   These diodes multiply the problem by at least a = factor of two.  If you insist on using the diodes, you might want to install = a capacitor at your main power distribution point.  Those big = electrolytics that the monster car audio systems use would be ideal : )

The electrical systems guru (Bob K.) points out that batteries do not make a good noise absorber and that is technically true but I would counter that they are infinitely better = than nothing at all. 

Tracy

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t; wrote:



Jim Maher was kind enough to convert the large DXF files of my = electrical
system to JPG so perhaps more of you can examine it.  Recall I have removed
the 2nd battery stuff - so ignore that on the diagrams.  Also the = diagram
does not show any of the detailed EC2/injector/ignition wiring - = follow
Tracy's recommendations on that.

As you will note there is no "isolation" diode between = alternator and
battery and also that the battery voltage holds the master relay = closed.
That is another change I must make.  I must have decided (10+ years = ago)
that the battery would never fail - only the alternator.  Clearly = (now),
without battery voltage (in my design) to hold the master relay =  closed -
when the battery voltage fall to around 6-7 volts (in my case) the = relay
opens and all that good electrical power being produced by the = perfectly
good alternator - can not reach any part of the electrical system.  Clearly
NOT good as I could have continued to fly perfectly well with just = the
alternator juice.

Your design is not going to be any better than the accuracy of your
assumptions.  Clearly some of my assumptions make 10 years ago = definitely
need revising.

Ed


The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link = attachments:

DIAG_3B.jpg
DIAG_2B.jpg
DIAG_1B.jpg


Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may = prevent
sending or receiving certain types of file attachments.  Check your = e-mail
security settings to determine how attachments are handled.


__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus = signature
database 3267 (20080714) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.



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Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.h= tml

 



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