i have done two now and it is heavy 18 pds with TB. the tb is 7 pds.
a lot of wight was in the making of primary/secondary air.
my question is, do i need to split the air ? could i just go with a big TB and 6 inlets
(plz read sds web site) rvjguy@ canard forum thanks in advance
steve parkins
From:
flyrotary@lancaironline.netTo:
flyrotary@lancaironline.netSubject: flyrotary Digest #2459
Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 06:00:15 -0400
Rotary motors in aircraft Digest #2459
1) Re: Initial Tuning - Today
by James Maher <delta11xd@att.net>
2) Re: Starter Problem \ Question
by Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com>
3) Re: Initial Tuning - Today
by James Maher <delta11xd@att.net>
4) Re: Initial Tuning - Today
by Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
5) Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak
by "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes@qnsi.net>
6) UMA Tach
by "John" <downing.j@sbcglobal.net>
7) Re: UMA Tach
by "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
8) Re: Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak
by "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures@cox.net>
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--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:56:11 -0700
From:
delta11xd@att.netSubject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today
|
Mike,
One way to test for intake manifold leaks is to pinch off hoses one by one while the engine is running to see if RPM decreases. You could also remove the each hose at the manifold an plug the inlet. Also be sure that the intake manifold gasket and throttle body gasket are sealing good and that all bolts are tight.
Jim
From: Mike Fontenot <mikef@apexconsultingservices.com>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 3:50 PM
=== JIM, I will look at what kinds of adjustments I can make on the Throttle Body. Wow, that is low RPM!. I had no idea. Problem is I don't know what I don't know.
>>> 1. Manifold leak - if this is the case it should be found and fixed before any tuning is continued. Check all hoses and fittings on the intake manifold and throttle body. Check that the throttle is closing all the way. It may need adjustment. <<<
What technique do you use for leak detection?
>>>2. Idle setting on throttle body not properly set. If the throttle body has a idle speed setting
screw (allows air after the throttle plate) try to turn it to reduce the idle.<<<
I will look for that.
Thanks again
-- Mike ================================ Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting & Services LLC Lakewood, Colorado 303 / 731-6645 mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com ================================ |
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From:
jwhaley@datacast.comDate: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:06:27 -0700
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Starter Problem \ Question
Bobby, I have seen similar problems with contactors/relays in
the past, specifically the automotive starter relays that are chassis grounded
and require +12V to activate the relay … if the +12V (battery voltage) is
weak these relays will stick ON. In my case, the starter would stay engaged so
there was no doubt about what was happening but the engine was not running …
in your case with the engine running you may not be able tell.
Why don’t you run the starter for a second or two, but do
not let the engine start (turn fuel off for example) then check your amp meter
after disengage? Jeff
From: Rotary motors in
aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bobby J.
Hughes
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:36 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Starter Problem \ Question
Is
it possible for a starter to keep drawing current after engine start without
being engaged to the starter wheel? I was seeing a 38A draw today during
ground runs with only fuel, spark, EM2/3 and engine monitor turned on. Normally
I see about 15A in this condition. During ground runs last week
and running on my backup battery\ wiring I popped an 80A ANL
fuse several minutes after engine start. At the time I suspected a
hot polyfuse in a crowbar circuit for the alternator triggered the event. After
studying my wiring diagram I determined the crowbar opening could not cause the
fuse to fail. The only item capable of blowing this fuse is the starter. The
starter coil wire is in parallel with a firewall contactor coil wire. Both
coil wires go to a starter switch fused at 10A. I suspect a starter problem is
keeping voltage on the coil lead and keeping the firewall contactor closed
after engine start. My firewall contactor is not the usually starter
contactor with the small wiring terminal for the starter. It's a conventional
contactor but rated for high current. This may be part of the problem. If
the starter checks out then I will use a DC amp meter on the starter lead. I
may also add a run-on light to the coil leads.
Any
input would be appreciated.
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:07:22 -0700
From:
delta11xd@att.net
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today
|
Mike,
Are you using the right fuel injector for your application?
Such large jumps may be due to improper injector sizing.
The Geo engine is a fuel sipper rather than a gas guzzler so it would require
an injector that can meter fuel much more precisely.
Just a thought.
From: Mike Fontenot <mikef@apexconsultingservices.com>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 11:35 PM
Tracy,
>>All good except for (again) the MAP increasing. My guess is that you Assumed that the MAP went up when the RPM went up. This does not happen under these circumstances without increasing the throttle. See previous comments on this. Think of the engine as a vacuum pump (it is). If you do something to make the engine (vacuum pump) turn faster WITHOUT opening the throttle more, the MAP is going to go DOWN (more vacuum), not UP, as the engine sucks more air through the same restriction.<<
Right, yes I probably did assume that when the RPM went up so did the MAP. Good explanation, I'll be sure to observe that next engine run. Its not Cold Fusion (power de novo).
>>Are you saying that the MI jumps around (up and down?) all the time, when you move the mixture control, random direction when you move the mix control, or what? Position of O2
sensor (too close to end of pipe, too cold a position, etc), exhaust leaks, engine miss, bad connections, poor ground, and other things can cause bad indications. <<
When I was in Mode 3, and adjusting the mixture knob, the direction of change of the Mixture Knob and the increase and decrease of the Mixture Indicator were in the same direction. It was just that what I thought was a small change on the Knob resulted in a big change on the Mixture Indicator. Same when using the Program KNob and Store button. One push to increase injector flow rate there could make the Mixture Indicator go from position 3 of 16 to 11 of 16. Movement of the Mixture Indicator always tracked the Mixture Knob or changes via the Program Knob, but I was expecting smooth increases. And in Mode 3 that generally did not happy, they were larger changes. I hate to use this term but 'twitchy'. Again, I will run it up again and watch, note these
specific things.
I might try checking the wiring and putting a ground strap on the O2 sensor as a first attempt.
--
Mike
================================
Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting & Services LLC
Lakewood, Colorado
303 / 731-6645
mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com
================================
|
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:20:53 -0500
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today
From:
msteitle@gmail.com
Jim,
I've had good luck finding vacuum leaks using WD-40. With the engine running, spray WD-40 around the intake gasket and other places you suspect a leak. Since WD-40 is flammable, the engine will change speed if it sucks some liquid into the intake. If the engine speed changes, you've found your leak. For safety purposes, and to keep the WD-40 from spraying you in the face, you may want to remove the prop.
Mark S.
On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 8:56 AM, James Maher
<delta11xd@att.net> wrote:
|
|
Mike,
One way to test for intake manifold leaks is to pinch off hoses one by one while the engine is running to see if RPM decreases. You could also remove the each hose at the manifold an plug the inlet. Also be sure that the intake manifold gasket and throttle body gasket are sealing good and that all bolts are tight.
Jim
From: Mike Fontenot <mikef@apexconsultingservices.com>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Initial Tuning - Today
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 3:50 PM
=== JIM, I will look at what kinds of adjustments I can make on the Throttle Body. Wow, that is low RPM!. I had no idea. Problem is I don't know what I don't know.
>>> 1. Manifold leak - if this is the case it should be found and fixed before any tuning is continued. Check all hoses and fittings on the intake manifold and throttle body. Check that the throttle is closing all the way. It may need adjustment. <<<
What technique do you use for leak detection?
>>>2. Idle setting on throttle body not properly set. If the throttle body has a idle speed setting
screw (allows air after the throttle plate) try to turn it to reduce the idle.<<<
I will look for that.
Thanks again
-- Mike ================================ Mike Fontenot
Apex Consulting & Services LLC Lakewood, Colorado 303 / 731-6645 mikef AT apexconsultingservices DOT com ================================ |
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
Subject: Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:11:19 -0600
From:
bhughes@qnsi.net
I reinstalled my EC2 yesterday after a
few changes by Tracy. I immediately discovered a new problem. The lowest MAP
address being used was 62 and both primary and secondary injectors fired at all
MP and RPM. With Tracy on the phone and Dennis H supervising my efforts we found
a small vacuum leak at the Aeromotive A1000-6 fuel pressure regulator. After
switching the two MP tubes between A&B controllers the A controller starter
working as expected. The EC2 staged properly with lower MAP addresses being
accessed. When reinstalling the EC2 I had switch the MP tubes from my usual
configuration. A couple of weeks ago I had noticed my B controller was not
working as expected. I had to continually adjust the mixture to keep the engine
running. Now I know why. What was unexpected is one MP tube is used for the
fuel pressure regulator, B Controller and my Advanced EFIS engine monitor. The
Advanced engine monitor was not affected by the slight leak. On the other hand
the EM3 did see the leak and was showing static pressure regardless of
MP. Here is a note from the Aeromotive web site.
NOTE: Testing
the enclosed regulator by applying air pressure or vacuum to the vacuum port
with a
hand-held pump will yield poor results,
due to the slight air leakage through the adjustment screw
threads. This minute leakage, which is
typical of all adjustable fuel pressure regulators, does not, in any
way, affect the performance of the
regulator.
Bobby
Hughes
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From:
downing.j@sbcglobal.net
Subject: UMA Tach
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 21:35:39 -0400
A great big thanks goes out to Bob, Ed and Jeff for
the effort these gentlemen put in on a solution to my tach condition. I
ordered the tach from UMA today, which is part number 19-51A-201, which is a
7,000 rpm tach, 2 1/4" dia., which will operate on the 5v signal to one LS-1
coil. Price is $141.00. Phone number for UMA is 1-800/842-5578, in
case anyone is looking for an analog tach in 2 1/4 or 3 1/8th" size.
Another plus for UMA, it is made in Virginia, Good Ole USA.
JohnD
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From:
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] UMA Tach
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:11:28 -0400
You’re Welcome, John
That’s what this list is all about –
helping each to get those rotaries airborne.
Ed
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 9:36
PM
To: Rotary
motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] UMA Tach
A great big thanks goes out to Bob, Ed and Jeff for the
effort these gentlemen put in on a solution to my tach condition. I
ordered the tach from UMA today, which is part number 19-51A-201, which is a
7,000 rpm tach, 2 1/4" dia., which will operate on the 5v signal to one
LS-1 coil. Price is $141.00. Phone number for UMA is
1-800/842-5578, in case anyone is looking for an analog tach in 2 1/4 or 3
1/8th" size. Another plus for UMA, it is made in Virginia, Good Ole USA.
JohnD
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database 3267 (20080714) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
http://www.eset.com--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From:
ALVentures@cox.net
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Fuel Pressure Regulator \ Vacuum Leak
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 22:21:21 -0800
Here is a note from the Aeromotive
web site.
. . . .This minute
leakage, which is typical of all adjustable fuel pressure regulators, does not,
in any
way, affect the performance of the regulator.
Maybe it is typical of all Aeromotive pressure regulators; but my TWM adjustable
regulator is T’d off the line to controller B, and has worked fine for
four years with no leakage.
Al G
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