X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail.fdic.gov ([167.176.6.5] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.13) with ESMTPS id 3540610 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 Mar 2009 14:33:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=167.176.6.5; envelope-from=brogers@fdic.gov x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C9A0E5.75A7BA72" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_=5BFlyRotary=5D_Re=3A_87_OCTANE_MOGAS_TEST_=28SOREL-?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?TRACY=2C_PROVINCE_DE_QU=C9BEC=2C_CANADA=29?= Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 13:32:53 -0500 Message-ID: <1F44A251F397E444B05E240B8688AB790228A612@DALEXC100P.PROD.FDIC.GOV> In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5BFlyRotary=5D_Re=3A_87_OCTANE_MOGAS_TEST_=28SOREL-?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?TRACY=2C_PROVINCE_DE_QU=C9BEC=2C_CANADA=29?= Thread-Index: Acmg3Wg8VPeeXiAxQ2K9Xiirags3YQAB8qyw References: From: "Rogers, Bob J." To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Return-Path: BRogers@FDIC.gov X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2009 18:32:58.0330 (UTC) FILETIME=[785103A0:01C9A0E5] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C9A0E5.75A7BA72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You can get an excellent fuel tester from Aircraft Spruce that does all = the measurements for you. See = http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gasoholTester.php =20 =20 Bob Rogers =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Jeff Whaley Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:34 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, PROVINCE DE = QU=C9BEC, CANADA) =20 Hey Bob, you're right ... 15ml was extracted from 200ml of gas ... = 15/200 =3D 7.5% Jeff =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Bob White Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 1:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, PROVINCE DE = QU=C9BEC, CANADA) =20 Hi Jeff, =20 Sorry, I have to disagree. The water value is arbitrary. 25 ml was used to start, but it could have been any amount. The water wasn't in the fuel to start with, it's only used to suck the alcohol out of the gas. You need to look at how much fuel was added and how much alcohol you got out of it. =20 Bob W. =20 =20 =20 On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 10:08:50 -0700 Jeff Whaley wrote: =20 > Hi Bob, the answer is the same 6.66% ... > The initial volumes were 200ml fuel and 25ml water for 225ml total. > The total volume never changed but the water content increased from 25 = to 40ml or by 15ml. > Therefore the alcohol content is 15ml/225ml or 6.66% of total volume. > Jeff >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Bob White > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:57 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, PROVINCE = DE QU=C9BEC, CANADA) >=20 > Hi Jeff, >=20 > I agree with your math, but what is the question? The 15 ml = represents > a 6.6% increase in water + alcohol, but so what. If you started with > 50 ml of water, you would still get 15 ml of alcohol out of 200 ml > fuel, so the increase would be 15 ml / 250 ml =3D 6%, or use 100 ml of > water ant you get 15 ml / 300 ml =3D 5%. >=20 > Isn't the question - what is the percentage of alcohol in the fuel? >=20 > Bob W. >=20 >=20 > On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:38:06 -0700 > Jeff Whaley wrote: >=20 > > Sorry double typos ... just got back from vacation ... > > The relationships are: > > 25/225 =3D 11.11% > > 40/225 =3D 17.77% > > Increase =3D 17.77 - 11.11 =3D 6.66% > > Same as 15/225 =3D 6.66% > > Jeff > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley > > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:35 PM > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, PROVINCE = DE QU=C9BEC, CANADA) > >=20 > > The relationships are: > > 25/255 =3D 11.11% > > 40/225 =3D 17.77% > > Increase =3D 17.77 - 11.11 =3D 6.66% > > Same as 15/255 =3D 6.66% > > Jeff > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Bob White > > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:06 PM > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, PROVINCE = DE QU=C9BEC, CANADA) > >=20 > > Hi Yvon, > >=20 > > My interpretation would be the 25 to 40 ml increase represents 15 ml = of > > alcohol. That would represent=20 > > 15 ml alcohol / 200 ml fuel + alcohol =3D 7.5 %=20 > >=20 > > I've never actually done one of these tests, so if I've got it wrong > > let me know. :) > >=20 > > Bob W. > >=20 > >=20 > > On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:58:42 -0400 > > Yvon Cournoyer wrote: > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Yesterday I went to the Sorel airport and tested the fuel in = my=20 > > > Zenith 90 liters tank. > > >=20 > > > This fuel already contains two stroke oil in the ratio of = 1:130 per=20 > > > volume. > > >=20 > > > In a cylindrical ungraduated container I poured 25 ml of tap water = and=20 > > > added 200 ml of fuel > > >=20 > > > After 1 hour and several vigourous shakings I observed an = increase in=20 > > > the volume of water to 40 ml > > >=20 > > > The increase is about 4% (?) > > >=20 > > > All quantities are approximate. > > >=20 > > > Since I began running and flying my 1986 Mazda 13B engine, I have = tested=20 > > > in flight all grades of mogas and also 100LL avgas. I would wait = until=20 > > > my fuel level was very low and would fill my tank with the = diff=E9rent=20 > > > grade. Never detected a change in the performance of my engine. = The only=20 > > > times I drew water from my fuel tank was when it was filled with = 100LL=20 > > > avgas. > > >=20 > > > Yvon Cournoyer. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 =20 =20 --=20 N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding Cables for your rotary installation - http://roblinstores.com/ =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 =20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------_=_NextPart_001_01C9A0E5.75A7BA72 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

You can get an excellent fuel tester from = Aircraft Spruce that does all the measurements for you.=A0 See = http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gasoholTester.php<= /o:p>

 

 

Bob Rogers

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Jeff Whaley
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:34 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, PROVINCE DE = QU=C9BEC, = CANADA)

 

Hey Bob, you're right ... 15ml was extracted from 200ml of gas ... 15/200 = =3D 7.5%

Jeff

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf = Of Bob White

Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 1:24 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, PROVINCE DE = QU=C9BEC, = CANADA)

 

Hi Jeff,

 

Sorry, I have to disagree.=A0 The water = value is arbitrary.=A0 25 ml = was

used to start, but it could have been any amount.=A0 The water wasn't in

the fuel to start with, it's only used to suck the alcohol out of = the

gas. You need to look at how much fuel was added and how much = alcohol

you got out of it.

 

Bob W.

 

 

 

On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 10:08:50 -0700

Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> wrote:

 

> Hi Bob, the answer is the same 6.66% ...

> The initial volumes were 200ml fuel and 25ml water for 225ml = total.

> The total volume never changed but the water content increased from 25 = to 40ml or by 15ml.

> Therefore the alcohol content is 15ml/225ml or 6.66% of total = volume.

> Jeff

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Bob White

> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:57 PM

> To: Rotary motors in aircraft

> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, PROVINCE DE = QU=C9BEC, = CANADA)

>

> Hi Jeff,

>

> I agree with your math, but what is the question?=A0 The 15 ml = represents

> a 6.6% increase in water + alcohol, but so what.=A0 If you started = with

> 50 ml of water, you would still get 15 ml of alcohol out of 200 = ml

> fuel, so the increase would be 15 ml / 250 ml =3D 6%, or use 100 ml = of

> water ant you get=A0 15 ml / 300 = ml =3D 5%.

>

> Isn't the question - what is the percentage of alcohol in the = fuel?

>

> Bob W.

>

>

> On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:38:06 -0700

> Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> = wrote:

>

> > Sorry double typos ... just got back from vacation = ...

> > The relationships are:

> > 25/225 =3D 11.11%

> > 40/225 =3D 17.77%

> > Increase =3D 17.77 - 11.11 =3D 6.66%

> > Same as 15/225 =3D 6.66%

> > Jeff

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Whaley

> > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:35 PM

> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft

> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, = PROVINCE DE QU=C9BEC, = CANADA)

> >

> > The relationships are:

> > 25/255 =3D 11.11%

> > 40/225 =3D 17.77%

> > Increase =3D 17.77 - 11.11 =3D 6.66%

> > Same as 15/255 =3D 6.66%

> > Jeff

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bob White

> > Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 12:06 PM

> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft

> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 87 OCTANE MOGAS TEST (SOREL-TRACY, = PROVINCE DE QU=C9BEC, = CANADA)

> >

> > Hi Yvon,

> >

> > My interpretation would be the 25 to 40 ml increase represents 15 = ml of

> > alcohol.=A0 That would = represent

> > 15 ml alcohol / 200 ml fuel + alcohol =3D 7.5 % =

> >

> > I've never actually done one of these tests, so if I've got it = wrong

> > let me know. :)

> >

> > Bob W.

> >

> >

> > On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 10:58:42 -0400

> > Yvon Cournoyer <geryvon@videotron.ca> = wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >=A0=A0=A0=A0 Yesterday = I went to the Sorel airport = and tested the fuel in my

> > > Zenith 90 liters tank.

> > >

> > >=A0=A0=A0=A0 This fuel = already contains two stroke oil in the ratio of 1:130 per

> > > volume.

> > >

> > > In a cylindrical ungraduated container I poured 25 ml of tap = water and

> > > added 200 ml of fuel

> > >

> > > After=A0 1 hour and = several vigourous shakings I observed an increase in =

> > > the volume of water to 40 ml

> > >

> > > The increase is about 4% (?)

> > >

> > > All quantities are approximate.

> > >

> > > Since I began running and flying my 1986 Mazda 13B engine, I = have tested

> > > in flight all grades of mogas and also 100LL avgas. I would = wait until

> > > my fuel level was very low and would fill my tank with the = diff=E9rent

> > > grade. Never detected a change in the performance of my = engine. The only

> > > times I drew water from my fuel tank was when it was filled = with 100LL

> > > avgas.

> > >

> > > Yvon Cournoyer.

> > >

> > >

> > >=A0 =

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > Homepage:=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/

> > > Archive and UnSub:=A0=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

> >

> >

>

>

 

 

--

N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - = http://www.bob-white.com

3.8 Hours Total Time and holding

Cables for your rotary installation - = http://roblinstores.com/

 

--

Homepage:=A0 = http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:=A0=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

 

--

Homepage:=A0 = http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:=A0=A0 = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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