X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ey-out-2122.google.com ([74.125.78.27] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3341856 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 10:44:56 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.78.27; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 25so562111eya.25 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:44:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=xtJT5RbcwQvaR6l6LB4SpvuG3UmXNJ598rgWJsPqFhg=; b=xhQY3eAO+a3SIws9PWYiJlnj3n68WDMuxVc2q5ax64G0PA29kSxT0gOXDu/9rzilOw 6WBVmMkMZIajmXQVhypQ6rpb/iH5CMq3D3PLJFdIlr6Ym5lia3xfNj3KQZmRjzq2YZUO E2D5thmu8TR8AGgERr6EPIp3sgaG60Vh/zrUE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:references; b=X0Isv8p8TdHX1DTEKq0oh4RLclue4g6RGeQk4elCN9RvG/xCp5pRoSQy9oaePVmbbx I0xunra9vz7ktAxrnyB0zOFSJco0sCDEip7vSwCnSwvBD5bnRLbgfCRQzqi9J/JITyT9 0cTEApbejkRfffBHBc2sAjoeBaQpb3PQu4rMQ= Received: by 10.210.45.14 with SMTP id s14mr3715475ebs.167.1228751059618; Mon, 08 Dec 2008 07:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.210.21.19 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Dec 2008 07:44:19 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5cf132c0812080744k6b11ff9eu1ade4c77b68e6fd8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:44:19 -0600 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Update ... Three more flights, water ok, oil too cool In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_75580_4209526.1228751059613" References: ------=_Part_75580_4209526.1228751059613 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Jeff, Sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm using a water-to-oil heat exchanger. So, where the water temps go, the oil temps follow. The water-to-oil exchanger does not have a thermostat. So, installing a water thermostat brought both the water and oil temps to where I wanted. It had a "180" stamped on it, and it stabilizes at around 180* on the ground. I'm guessin= g that the reduced flow caused by the thermostat probably accounts for the slightly higher temps (195*). If possible, cowl flaps would be preferrable as that would also reduce cooling drag. Mark S. On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Jeff Whaley wrote: > Mark, > > I'm not sure what the cruise temps are as we have been flying short, tigh= t > circuits only. I think cruise temperatures need to be determined before > doing too much else, though re-installing the thermostat may happen. > > What is the relationship between the water and oil temp? I guess you have > stock Mazda thermostat 195F? > > Most of the rotary world has cheek radiators up front, with the oil coole= r > going in whatever space is left. My oil cooler is up front on top of the > PSRU with inlets/outlets on both ends and the water radiator (19x5.5x5.5)= is > below/behind the oil pan =85 two independent systems one working too well= the > other not well enough =85 see attached photo. > > Jeff > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Mark Steitle > *Sent:* Monday, December 08, 2008 8:53 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Update ... Three more flights, water ok, oil > too cool > > > > Jeff, > > > > Climb out temps are of concern because they are the worst-case scenario, > but they are also short-lived. What are your oil & water temps in cruise= ? > Mine were good during the summer months, but now that it colder weather i= s > here, they have dropped into the 130* range, which is much too cool. > Saturday I installed a thermostat and then flew it. Temps in cruise were > 195* water, 193* oil. I'll wait to see what happens when it starts warmi= ng > up next spring, but for now, the thermostat stays in. I did notice that > with the thermostat installed, coolant pressure went up. Makes sense as = I > now have a significant flow-restrictor in the system. > > > > I would prefer to control temps with cowl flaps, as that would result in > less drag, but I'm still designing that system. > > > > Mark S. > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:23 AM, Jeff Whaley wrote: > > With thermostat removed, bypass plugged, new accessory belts and alternat= or > pulley installed, we retested the new rotary installation. > > On first climb out water temperature reached only 195F, compared to 230F = on > very first flight a week ago. With the water temperature okay we did 2 to= uch > and goes then shut everything down and checked under the cowl =85 no brok= en > belts, no leaks that's a relief. > > On the subsequent climb outs the water temp was about 185F; on approach t= he > water cooled to 150F. I guess with the approach momentum you spend less t= ime > at full throttle on a touch and go. Some other numbers of interest, 6300 > rpm, 1100 fpm, outside air temp 30F, oil temp 110F. > > > > So I would say that the water cooling system is still not good enough (at > 80F that 195 could go to 245F) on the other hand my oil is too cool. > > For present winter operations I'm wondering =85 put the thermostat back i= n, > which may help the oil =85 I don't like the cooling to 150F on approach, = or > should I keep the systems separate? Plug the oil cooler air intakes or > outlets? Or should we first fly at cruise speeds for 10-15 minutes to see > how things stabilize? > > Jeff Whaley > > (I call it an airplane now) > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > ------=_Part_75580_4209526.1228751059613 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Jeff,
 
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I'm using a water-to-oil heat exch= anger.  So, where the water temps go, the oil temps follow.  The = water-to-oil exchanger does not have a thermostat.  So, installing a w= ater thermostat brought both the water and oil temps to where I wanted.&nbs= p; It had a "180" stamped on it, and it stabilizes at around 180*= on the ground.  I'm guessing that the reduced flow caused by the = thermostat probably accounts for the slightly higher temps (195*).&nbs= p;
 
If possible, cowl flaps would be preferrable as that would also reduce= cooling drag. 
Mark S.

 
On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.= com> wrote:

Mark,

I'm not sure what the cr= uise temps are as we have been flying short, tight circuits only. I think c= ruise temperatures need to be determined before doing too much else, though= re-installing the thermostat may happen.

What is the relationship= between the water and oil temp? I guess you have stock Mazda thermostat 19= 5F?

Most of the rotary world= has cheek radiators up front, with the oil cooler going in whatever space = is left. My oil cooler is up front on top of the PSRU with inlets/outlets o= n both ends and the water radiator (19x5.5x5.5) is below/behind the oil pan= =85 two independent systems one working too well the other not well enough= =85 see attached photo.

Jeff

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On = Behalf Of Mark Steitle
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:53 AM
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Update ... Three more flight= s, water ok, oil too cool

 

Jeff,

 

Climb out temps are of concern because they are the worst-case scenario,= but they are also short-lived.  What are your oil & wat= er temps in cruise?  Mine were good during the summer months, but=  now that it colder weather is here, they have dropped into = the 130* range, which is much too cool.  Saturday I installed a thermo= stat and then flew it.  Temps in cruise were 195* water, 193* oil= .  I'll wait to see what happens when it starts warming = up next spring, but for now, the thermostat stays in.  = I did notice that with the thermostat installed, coolant pressure went= up.  Makes sense as I now have a significant flow-restrictor in the s= ystem.

 

I would prefer to control temps with cowl flaps, as that would resu= lt in less drag, but I'm still designing that system. 

 

Mark S.

On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 7:23 AM, Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> wrote:

With thermostat removed,= bypass plugged, new accessory belts and alternator pulley installed, we re= tested the new rotary installation.

On first climb out water= temperature reached only 195F, compared to 230F on very first flight a wee= k ago. With the water temperature okay we did 2 touch and goes then shut ev= erything down and checked under the cowl =85 no broken belts, no leaks that= 's a relief.

On the subsequent climb = outs the water temp was about 185F; on approach the water cooled to 150F. I= guess with the approach momentum you spend less time at full throttle on a= touch and go. Some other numbers of interest, 6300 rpm, 1100 fpm, outside = air temp 30F, oil temp 110F.

 

So I would say that the = water cooling system is still not good enough (at 80F that 195 could go to = 245F) on the other hand my oil is too cool.

For present winter opera= tions I'm wondering =85 put the thermostat back in, which may help the = oil =85 I don't like the cooling to 150F on approach, or should I keep = the systems separate? Plug the oil cooler air intakes or outlets? Or should= we first fly at cruise speeds for 10-15 minutes to see how things stabiliz= e?

Jeff Whaley

(I call it an airplane n= ow)

 

<= /div>

 


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