X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.10) with ESMTP id 3340963 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 17:55:41 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.30.40; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from OMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.43]) by QMTA04.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oLHC1a0050vp7WLA4Nv4Rn; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:55:04 +0000 Received: from ChristopherNB ([98.200.27.148]) by OMTA05.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oNv11a00Z3Bjvle8RNv3cV; Sun, 07 Dec 2008 22:55:04 +0000 Message-ID: <0E9D5722343B4D848D1FA39FD2D37BAD@ChristopherNB> From: "Christopher Barber" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: TX Rotary Velocity update Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 16:54:55 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_728E_01C9588C.882101A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18049 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_728E_01C9588C.882101A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lynn, As I have discussed a bit on various sites, there was even a write up = about it in an issue of Contact Magazine a short while back, the Jeffco = I used peeled off. I built the strakes at different times in my garage = but had the Jeffco flake off in both strakes. However, the sump, built = at even a different time was perfect with no issue with Jeffco. I am = certain I sanded/prepped properly but the problem will likely remain a = mystery. I did send a sample of my failure and they are as baffled as = I. I have not yet sent any to the new owners of Jeffco. WELL, to eliminate the Jeffco as an issue I rebuilt the strake interior = skins with EZPoxy and bid. As I have stated, I used the Jeffco to help = ensure resistance to various fuel types...such as Diesel and/or fuel = additives.. I considered the Detlahawk back in the day before I chose = the Mazda rotary. Anyway, I cut the top sections off each tank section leaving a lip on = each so as to be able to set repaired pieces into the cutout later. I = laboriously sanded and ground out the old Jeffco from the inner walls. = I cut out a couple of inner walls completely to determine if that may be = an easier process. I determined It was better to remove the bad product = instead of removing the entire wall. I figured if I only sanded the = stuff off, even if I got too aggressive in places it was easier to = repair the small area, especially since I was going to be adding new = layers of glass throughout then entire tank area. This also allowed me = to feel better about the structural integrity of the strake walls and = baffles. I still am uncertain how much the baffles add to the integrity = of the strake/wing as to flexing etc, but I figured I did not want to = worry about it. I have wondered about removing all the baffles and just = install an aluminum tank with aluminum baffles in the new tank = shell.....but that will hopefully remain only an idle speculation. So, after grinding off the Jeffco, I laid in new bid throughout the = tanks with heavy applications of EZPoxy. I spoke to Velocity who told = me they started using Jeffco more to address issues that had NOT ever = presented themselves, but to minimize the concerns of customers. They = had not experienced problems with EZ10/EZ83 in tank applications even = with ethanol added in auto fuels. IIRC, as I mentioned here before, = Velocity has a customer who builds motorcycle fuel tanks out of = fiberglass. This customer did some research who determined that EZPoxy = turned out to be the better/best epoxy to use with Auto fuel. I tested the repairs before I replaced the strake top sections with = water. I filled the strakes with water and let it sit overnight. = Everything held. Put the nose several feet in the air and the water did = not leak. I also repaired the sections I cut out of the strake tops by grinding = off the Jeffco and adding new/additional glass. I added more lip area = around all the cut openings so the cut out pieces to sit on. Once all = was prepared, I did a heavy flox application on the lips and placed the = tops on top of the lips, weighted it all down and crossed my fingers. = Well, the pilot side sealed completely (yeah, it was the side I cut up = second, thus my process had improves....hey, if ever there is a second = plane built it will certainly be twice as good in half the time ),the = copilot side took a bit of leak searching. I put a balloon over the = vent outlet and blew compressed air into the fuel outlet while spraying = soapy water over the repaired area. WOW, some of the leaks were huge. = How did that happen. Oh well. I cut the outer skin off until I found = the leak, repaired the area and after about two days of the process was = finally able to get both sides to hold air.=20 Once the balloons stayed full I went to making the tops look pretty by = adding blue foam where I had to be more aggressive on the outer skin = repair, applied micro to seal seams etc and laid down new glass over the = entire area. A few days ago I applied micro and last night I calibrated = the fuel gauges to 25 gallons and started the engine briefly. I have = some pix of the process that I will likely post on CanardZone and place = link here for the curious. You had to ask a person willing to share the gory details So, build on....... All the best, Chris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lehanover@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: TX Rotary Velocity update In a message dated 12/6/2008 10:25:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, = CBarber@TexasAttorney.net writes: As y'all likely remember I had to redo my strakes following finding = my Jeffco fuel tank sealant had failed a few months ago. A few days ago = I applied some micro on my hopefully now repaired strakes. I still have = to smooth and pretty up the micro, but to get away from the fiberglass = work for a bit I decided to add fuel to my new strake tanks and = calibrate my newly installed Atkinson fuel gages.=20 I had about 25 gallons that I added one gallon at a time, 1/2 gallon = to each side. The Velocity has a center sump tank that the two strake = tanks dump into. So I added fuel to each side in approximately equal = amounts to allow everything to equalize better. I filled the sump tank = first and it took just under five gallons. Nothing seemed to leak = confirming my air pressure test with balloons a while back. What method, materials did you use to repair your fuel tanks. You = cannot be the only one having this problem. Thank you. Lynn E. Hanover -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and favorite sites = in one place. Try it now. ------=_NextPart_000_728E_01C9588C.882101A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Lynn,
 
As I have discussed a bit on various sites, there was even a write = up about=20 it in an issue of Contact Magazine a short while back, the Jeffco I used = peeled=20 off.  I built the strakes at different times in my garage but had = the=20 Jeffco flake off in both strakes.  However, the sump, built at even = a=20 different time was perfect with no issue with Jeffco.  I am certain = I=20 sanded/prepped properly but the problem will likely remain a = mystery.  I=20 did send a sample of my failure and they are as baffled as I.  I = have not=20 yet sent any to the new owners of Jeffco.
 
WELL, to eliminate the Jeffco as an issue I rebuilt the strake = interior=20 skins with EZPoxy and bid.  As I have stated, I used the = Jeffco=20 to help ensure resistance to various fuel types...such as Diesel and/or = fuel=20 additives..  I considered the Detlahawk back in the day before = I chose=20 the Mazda rotary.
 
Anyway, I cut the top sections off each tank section leaving a = lip on=20 each so as to be able to set repaired pieces into the cutout = later.  I=20 laboriously sanded and ground out the old Jeffco from the inner = walls.  I=20 cut out a couple of inner walls completely to determine if that may be = an easier=20 process.  I determined It was better to remove the bad product = instead of=20 removing the entire wall.  I figured if I only sanded the stuff = off, even=20 if I got too aggressive in places it was easier to repair the small = area,=20 especially since I was going to be adding new layers of glass throughout = then=20 entire tank area.  This also allowed me to feel better about the = structural=20 integrity of the strake walls and baffles.  I still am uncertain = how much=20 the baffles add to the integrity of the strake/wing as to flexing = etc, but=20 I figured I did not want to worry about it.  I have wondered about = removing=20 all the baffles and just install an aluminum tank  with aluminum = baffles in=20 the new tank shell.....but that will hopefully remain only an idle=20 speculation.
 
So, after grinding off the Jeffco, I laid in new bid throughout the = tanks=20 with heavy applications of EZPoxy.  I spoke to Velocity who told me = they=20 started using Jeffco more to address issues that had NOT ever presented=20 themselves, but to minimize the concerns of customers.  They had = not=20 experienced problems with EZ10/EZ83 in tank applications even with = ethanol added=20 in auto fuels.  IIRC, as I mentioned here before, Velocity has a = customer=20 who builds motorcycle fuel tanks out of fiberglass. This customer did = some=20 research who determined that EZPoxy turned out to be the better/best = epoxy to=20 use with Auto fuel.
 
I tested the repairs before I replaced the strake top sections with = water.  I filled the strakes with water and let it sit = overnight. =20 Everything held.  Put the nose several feet in the air and the = water did=20 not leak.
 
I also repaired the sections I cut out of the strake tops by = grinding off=20 the Jeffco and adding new/additional glass.  I added more lip area = around=20 all the cut openings so the cut out pieces to sit on.  Once all was = prepared, I did a heavy flox application on the lips and placed the tops = on top=20 of the lips, weighted it all down and crossed my fingers.  Well, = the pilot=20 side sealed completely (yeah, it was the side I cut up second, thus my = process=20 had improves....hey, if ever there is a second plane built it will = certainly be=20 twice as good in half the time <g>),the copilot side took a bit of = leak=20 searching.  I put a balloon over the vent outlet and blew = compressed air=20 into the fuel outlet while spraying soapy water over the repaired area. = WOW,=20 some of the leaks were huge.  How did that happen.  Oh = well.  I=20 cut the outer skin off until I found the leak, repaired the area and = after about=20 two days of the process was finally able to get both sides to hold=20 air. 
 
Once the balloons stayed full I went to making the tops look pretty = by=20 adding blue foam where I had to be more aggressive on the outer skin = repair,=20 applied micro to seal seams etc and laid down new glass over the entire=20 area.  A few days ago I applied micro and last night I calibrated = the fuel=20 gauges to 25 gallons and started the engine briefly.  I have some = pix of=20 the process that I will likely post on CanardZone and place link here = for the=20 curious.
 
You had to ask a person willing to share the gory details = <g>
 
So, build on.......
 
All the best,
 
Chris
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lehanover@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 =
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: TX = Rotary=20 Velocity update

In a message dated 12/6/2008 10:25:25 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, = CBarber@TexasAttorney.net=20 writes:
As=20 y'all likely remember I had to redo my strakes following finding my = Jeffco=20 fuel tank sealant had failed a few months ago. A few days ago I = applied some=20 micro on my hopefully now repaired strakes. I still have to smooth = and=20 pretty up the micro, but to get away from the fiberglass work for a = bit I=20 decided to add fuel to my new strake tanks and calibrate my newly = installed=20 Atkinson fuel gages.

I had about 25 gallons that I added one = gallon=20 at a time, 1/2 gallon to each side. The Velocity has a center sump = tank that=20 the two strake tanks dump into. So I added fuel to each side in=20 approximately equal amounts to allow everything to equalize better. = I filled=20 the sump tank first and it took just under five gallons. Nothing = seemed to=20 leak confirming my air pressure test with balloons a while=20 back.
What method, materials did you use to repair your fuel tanks. You = cannot=20 be the only one having this problem.
 
Thank you.
 
Lynn E. Hanover



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