Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 2750626 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:33:54 -0500 Received: from o7y6b5 (clt78-020.carolina.rr.com [24.93.78.20]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id hAJ1Xpfn021489 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:33:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002a01c3ae3c$b04b46e0$1702a8c0@WorkGroup> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Renisis Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:30:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3AE12.C6DE2F00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3AE12.C6DE2F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jarrett, I'll take a stab at your questions. First, the HP rating of the = Renesis is in a bit of flux. It was orginally listed as approx 250HP at = somewhere around 9000 rpm. However, once folks got their hands on some = and put the on dynos, it became apparently that the engine did not = produce 250HP at least in its stock state. The latest figure I recall = was in the vicinity of 230 HP - still not bad. However, if you do a = search on the web on Renesis you may find some more recent figures. I don't think you will find any maximum continous ratings for any of the = rotaries. Clearly the higher RPM you run the engine the more stress and = wear. I personally have no quams about running the older 13B at 6000 = rpm the entire flight, although I normally fly it between 5200-5800 due = to the lower fuel burn. The literature indicates that the Renesis gets apporx 20% better fuel = economy - thats the good news, the bad knews is I understand that is = only gain occurs only at the lower rpms and that at the rpms we would = normally run it at - the 20% gain decreases considerably. No free = lunch - you want power, you burn fuel. Tracy's 2.85:1 and EC2 EFI should work with no problem. The weight of = the engine might be a few pounds less than a 13B but nothing = significant. The rotors are a pound lighter each and so the = counterweights are probably lighter as well, so maybe a 5 -10lb = reduction in weight over the 13B block - nothing significant in weight = savings like aluminum side housing would provide. I think it uses = direction ignition (one coil per plug) so that might save a few pounds = over the heavy 13B ignition system. =20 My personal opinion is that you can probably gain the same power out of = a 13B if you have the rotors lightened, heavy duty bearings/harden gears = and the entire rotating assembly dynamically balanced so you can wind to = higher rpms. Would also need the right induction and exhaust system. I = mean the racing guys can get over 250 HP with the NA 13B - however, = their reliability might be less than you would entertain for an aircraft = application.=20 Lynn could probably address what you can get out af a 13B better than = anybody on the list Lynn?? JJJ here are a couple of URLs on the Renesis that might help http://www.rx8.co.nz/Rotary/renesis.aspx http://asmic.com/collect/rotary1999/rotary_e.pdf 36 page PDF on the = rotary engine with some stuff on the Renesis Hope it helps Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message -----=20 From: JJ JOHNSON=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 12:19 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renisis Question for the list. I've seen lots of numbers thrown out there as = to how much power this engine is 'supposed' to produce. I'm wondering if = anyone has some concrete numbers as to how much 'continuous' hp's one = can expect at what rpm [what is the max continuous RPM recommended?]and = at what specific fuel burn? Also can this engine be turbo'd? I = understand from the Factory [in the Rx8] its NA. Tracy's 2.85:1 unit = should work on this engine?? As well as his electronic gizmo's? How far = is this engine as far as weights [installed] from the 13B? I've got = lots more but lets start there. [Or maybe someone has a web link they = can pass on that helps w/ these questions] I apologize if some are these = [ I suspect they probably are] redundant. Thanks Jarrett Johnson ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C3AE12.C6DE2F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jarrett,
 
    I'll take a stab at = your=20 questions.  First, the HP rating of the Renesis is in a bit of = flux. =20 It was orginally listed as approx 250HP at somewhere around 9000 = rpm. =20 However, once folks got their hands on some and put the on dynos, it = became=20 apparently that the engine did not produce 250HP at least in its stock=20 state.  The latest figure I recall was in the vicinity of 230 HP - = still=20 not bad.  However, if you do a search on the web on Renesis you may = find=20 some more recent figures.
 
I don't think you will find any maximum = continous=20 ratings for any of the rotaries.  Clearly the higher RPM you run = the engine=20 the more stress and wear.   I personally have no quams about = running=20 the older 13B at 6000 rpm the entire flight, although I normally = fly it=20 between 5200-5800 due to the lower fuel burn.
 
The literature indicates that the = Renesis gets=20 apporx 20% better fuel economy - thats the good news, the bad knews is I = understand that is only gain occurs only at the lower rpms and that = at the=20 rpms we would normally run it at - the 20% gain decreases = considerably. =20  No free lunch - you want power, = you burn=20 fuel.
 
Tracy's 2.85:1 and EC2 EFI should work = with no=20 problem. The weight of the engine might be a few pounds less than a = 13B but=20 nothing significant.  The rotors are a pound lighter each and = so the=20 counterweights are probably lighter as well, so maybe a 5 -10lb = reduction in=20 weight over the 13B block - nothing significant in weight savings =  like=20 aluminum side housing would provide.  I think it uses direction = ignition=20 (one coil per plug) so that might save a few pounds over the heavy 13B = ignition=20 system. 
 
My personal opinion is that you can = probably gain=20 the same power out of a 13B if you have the rotors lightened, heavy duty = bearings/harden gears and the entire rotating assembly dynamically = balanced so=20 you can wind to higher rpms.  Would also need the right induction = and=20 exhaust system.  I mean the racing guys can get over 250 HP with = the NA 13B=20 - however, their reliability might be less than you would entertain for = an=20 aircraft application.
 
Lynn could probably address what you = can get out af=20 a 13B better than anybody on the list
 
Lynn??
 
JJJ here are a couple of URLs on the Renesis that might = help
 
http://www.rx8.co.nz/Ro= tary/renesis.aspx
 
 
http://asmic.co= m/collect/rotary1999/rotary_e.pdf =20 36 page PDF on the rotary engine with some stuff on the = Renesis
 
Hope it helps
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JJ=20 JOHNSON
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, = 2003 12:19=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renisis

Question for the list. I've = seen lots of=20 numbers thrown out there as to how much power this engine is = 'supposed' to=20 produce. I'm wondering if anyone has some concrete numbers as to how = much=20 'continuous' hp's one can expect at what rpm [what is the max = continuous RPM=20 recommended?]and at what specific fuel burn? Also can this engine be = turbo'd?=20 I understand from the Factory [in the Rx8] its NA.  Tracy's = 2.85:1 unit=20 should work on this engine??  As well as his electronic gizmo's? = How far=20 is this engine as far as weights [installed] from the 13B?  I've = got lots=20 more but lets start there. [Or maybe someone has a web link they can = pass on=20 that helps w/ these questions] I apologize if some are these [ I = suspect they=20 probably are] redundant.
 
Thanks
Jarrett=20 Johnson
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