X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmmtao106.cox.net ([68.230.241.40] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.4) with ESMTP id 2993933 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:07:14 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.40; envelope-from=alventures@cox.net Received: from fed1rmimpo02.cox.net ([70.169.32.72]) by fed1rmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20080627140615.CEXO7004.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:06:15 -0400 Received: from BigAl ([72.192.137.74]) by fed1rmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id j26X1Z00L1cVYgg0426YKi; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:06:32 -0400 From: "Al Gietzen" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Running lean of peak Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:07:09 -0800 Message-ID: <000501c8d867$78700ee0$6401a8c0@BigAl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8D824.6A4CCEE0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8D824.6A4CCEE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave; =20 Thanks for that. I think you've identified the issue exactly. I have = been doing the leaning based on the highest EGT, the one that shows on the = EM2 front page; and have not looked at what the others are doing. =20 I have noted in the past that the EGT spread was different for different conditions, and I now recall that during the dyno tests I had noted that EGTs were not necessarily all on the same side of peak as the mixture = was varied - that #1 and #3 might move in different directions. =20 Always one more thing. I guess it will give me something to do while droning over the empty spaces in Wyoming. =20 Al =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of David Leonard Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:08 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Running lean of peak =20 Hi Al, I would confirm your experience. It will continue to run 200 LOP, but = even at 100 LOP it is starting to have significant misses. Even 50-60 LOP = has a much rougher feel than ROP, but the EGT's really start to fall off and = fuel consumption drops. I have noticed that much of the problem is rotor balance. If one rotor = is 20 ROP, the other may be well LOP. If I carefully work to match the = rotors then I run much smoother well LOP. The problem for me is that my rotor balance is very dependent on RPM. If I get them matched at 5000 RPM, = then they are WAY different at 6000 RPM and vise versa. (evidence of a very = poor manifold design?!) For my next turbo destruction cycle, I plan to really focus on EGT (like cert engine pilots have to). I will balance the rotors at a particular = RPM and only run LOP at that RPM. Otherwise, I will run ROP. If I can get = the turbo to 500 hrs, that would be less than $2/hr and it would be worth = it. Keep 2 turbos in cycle to the rebuild shop, and always the means to fly around n.a..... I'll let you know how it goes :-) Dave Leonard On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Al Gietzen wrote: =20 Al, How many hours are on your sparkplugs and are you useing auto fuel or 100LL.........Something to consider before a 2000 mile trip.........Could be possible indication = before the dreaded "SAG".......... =20 I don't recall (have to check the engine log), but I'd guess maybe 20 = hrs; only 10 ga 100LL; all the rest unleaded mogas. I took a leading and trailing out yesterday to look at them and they look fine. =20 Al =20 -------------- Original message from "Al Gietzen" : --------------=20 I'm finding that at about 100F LOP I sense that the engine is starting = to not like it - like it doesn't seem to be entirely smooth; maybe an occasional miss here and there. Am I right that some of you guys run as much as 200 LOP; or is it my imagination - in both cases. =20 Would timing setting have much of anything to do with running LOP? =20 Just past by the 100 hr mark on the engine near the end of a 500 mile = trip on Monday. I plan to leave next Monday on a round trip of over 2000 nm = over the following week. That'll rack up a few hours. =20 Al --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8D824.6A4CCEE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dave;

 

Thanks for that.  I think = you’ve identified the issue exactly.  I have been doing the leaning based = on the highest EGT, the one that shows on the EM2 front page; and have not = looked at what the others are doing.

 

I have noted in the past that the = EGT spread was different for different conditions, and I now recall that = during the dyno tests I had noted that EGTs were not necessarily all on the = same side of peak = as the mixture was varied – that #1 and #3 might move in different = directions.

 

Always one more thing.  I = guess it will give me something to do while droning over the empty spaces in = Wyoming.=

 

Al

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Thursday, June 26, = 2008 7:08 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Running lean of peak

 

Hi Al,

I would confirm your experience.  It will continue to run 200 LOP, = but even at 100 LOP it is starting to have significant misses.  Even = 50-60 LOP  has a much rougher feel than ROP, but the EGT's really start = to fall off and fuel consumption drops.

I have noticed that much of the problem is rotor balance.  If one = rotor is 20 ROP, the other may be well LOP.  If I carefully work to match = the rotors then I run much smoother well LOP.  The problem for me is = that my rotor balance is very dependent on RPM.  If I get them matched at = 5000 RPM, then they are WAY different at 6000 RPM and vise versa. (evidence = of a very poor manifold design?!)

For my next turbo destruction cycle, I plan to really focus on EGT (like = cert engine pilots have to).  I will balance the rotors at a particular = RPM and only run LOP at that RPM.  Otherwise, I will run ROP.  If I = can get the turbo to 500 hrs,  that would be less than $2/hr and it would = be worth it.  Keep 2 turbos in cycle to the rebuild shop, and always the = means to fly around n.a.....  I'll let you know how it goes  :-)

Dave Leonard

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Al Gietzen = <ALVentures@cox.net> = wrote:

 

Al,

 How many hours are on your sparkplugs = and are you useing auto fuel or 100LL.........Something to

consider before a 2000 mile = trip.........Could be possible indication before the dreaded = "SAG"..........

 

I don't recall = (have to check the engine log), but I'd guess maybe 20 hrs; only 10 ga 100LL; all = the rest unleaded mogas.  I took a leading and trailing out yesterday = to look at them and they look fine.

 

Al

 

-------------- Original message from "Al Gietzen" <ALVentures@cox.net>: --------------

I'm finding that at about 100F LOP I sense = that the engine is starting to not like it – like it doesn't seem to be = entirely smooth; maybe an occasional miss here and there.  Am I right that = some of you guys run as much as 200 LOP; or is it my imagination – in both = cases.

 

Would timing setting have much of anything = to do with running LOP?

 

Just past by the 100 hr mark on the engine = near the end of a 500 mile trip on Monday.  I plan to leave next Monday on a = round trip of over 2000 nm over the following week.  That'll rack up a = few hours.

 

Al




--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net =

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