X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail04.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.185] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.2) with ESMTPS id 2874624 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 27 Apr 2008 18:22:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.185; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-237-232-70.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.237.232.70]) by mail04.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id m3RMM3NY023035 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:22:04 +1000 Message-ID: <006901c8a8b5$20ea6bc0$6400a8c0@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Electric Water pumps - Interesting Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 08:22:01 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0063_01C8A908.EECC2D50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0657-0, 12/12/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C8A908.EECC2D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Michael, On The issue of thrust lines, I have found that with my installation ( = Vision low wing composite)I can lower the thrust line 4" and it will = provide a positive effect. Most Fixed undercarriages are draggy and a = lower thrust line will be an advantage in this situation. Not so with = retractable undercarriage - needless to say! I'm trying to make my single rotor installation as simple as possible = and was considering the electronic points type set-up. I would = appreciate any perceived problems you might find with this approach. George ( down under) Kelly: Yes my goal is to do a gravity fed carburetor low on the firewall. I = know this means a long induction run and all associated problems to = resolve there. I do already have the manifold made up for a three = Mikkuni set up like Tracy's early work and Fin Lassen's set up but that = means fuel pumps. My goal is a purely gravity fed system and I can do it = of my nose tank. In the end it may not work but hey its called = "experimental" for a reason. As for ignition I have a NOS early (pre 85) = points distributor (brand new) as well as a used one of the same = vintage. I also have the crank angle sensor and the taller electronic = distributor. The early point distributor as you may know is much lower = than the electronic one though not as low as the CAS. In building my = engine mount I lowered the thrust line by an inch from design and this = is as far as I dared deviate from plans being a novice at this game. = This according to my figuring should have worked but by the time I was = done with it all and the cowl slope I recently discovered still have to = do a bump (even using the right angle boots one the plug wires of the = distributor) in order to have reasonable clearance. My Falconar is an = older rendition than Max Lassacher's and as such has the rounder = firewall style of the older Jodels where Max's is much boxier. He of = course is using Tracy's ECU so clearance is not an issue. As for = alternators I am planning on 2 of the small 20 amp permanent magnet = units of a Kubota tractor. These are tiny units and the Corvair fellows = have had good success with them as well as the john Deere units. They = weigh almost nothing and 2 of them would give me redundancy. In the end = this may not work as the rotary is running much higher RPM than the = Corvair fellows and switching pulley diameters to adjust dynamo speed = may be impractical and it may make more sense to go with one of the smal = 40 amp conventional alternators. Back to the points distributor bit. Again from the Corvair crowd this = is what they have been running with success. Though they do not run both = points at the same time instead using a coil switcher to select which = output to feed to the single set of plugs. The principle being that one = can tell when the points are starting to fail giving you good warning to = replace them and will run of quite low voltage should your electrics = give up and if you wind up running of the battery you can run for quite = some time this way. Electronics tend to be more sensitive to critical = voltage levels. One of the other concerns is at the RPM we would, run we = could see issues of points bounce and this may negate their use. The = Corvair folks have been recently doing a combination of one set of = points and a electronic Crane pick up unit fitted in place of the second = set of points to get the best of both worlds. This may be an idea I can = use and adapt one of my older style low distributors to electronic = pickups.=20 In the end it all may not work, and going the proven way, ie fuel = injection and Tracy's ECU as most are doing and have proven works may be = the right thing to do. Michael ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 Michael, You mentioned a distributor.......Are you to be carburated and = use an early point type or electronic dist. which are very tall = ?..........The waterpump/thermostat housing can be shortened and the alternator relocated to the side leaving the stock waterpump in = place.........If you use Tracys EC2 the tall dist. is eliminated and replaced with = the short 86-91 ignition POS (position sensor)..........FWIW -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG.=20 Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date: = 26/04/2008 2:17 PM ------=_NextPart_000_0063_01C8A908.EECC2D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Michael,
On The issue of thrust lines, I have = found that=20 with my installation ( Vision low wing composite)I can lower the thrust = line 4"=20 and it will provide a positive effect. Most Fixed undercarriages are = draggy and=20 a lower thrust line will be an advantage in this situation. Not so with=20 retractable undercarriage - needless to say!
 
I'm trying to make my single rotor = installation as=20 simple as possible and was considering the electronic points type = set-up. I=20 would appreciate any perceived problems you might find with this=20 approach.
George ( down under)
Kelly:
 
Yes my goal is to do a gravity fed = carburetor low=20 on the firewall. I know this means a long induction run and all = associated=20 problems to resolve there. I do already have = the manifold=20 made up for a three Mikkuni set up like Tracy's early work and = Fin=20 Lassen's set up but that means fuel pumps. My goal is a purely = gravity=20 fed system and I can do it of my nose tank. In the end it may not work = but hey=20 its called "experimental" for a reason. As for ignition I have a = NOS=20 early (pre 85) points distributor (brand new) as well as a used one of = the=20 same vintage. I also have the crank angle sensor and the taller = electronic=20 distributor. The early point distributor as you may know is much lower = than=20 the electronic one though not as low as the CAS. In building my engine = mount I=20 lowered the thrust line by an inch from design and this is as far as I = dared deviate from plans being a novice at this game. This = according to=20 my figuring should have worked but by the time I was done with it all = and the=20 cowl slope I recently discovered still have to do a bump (even using = the right=20 angle boots one the plug wires of the distributor) in order to have = reasonable=20 clearance. My Falconar is an older rendition than Max Lassacher's and = as such=20 has the rounder firewall style of the older Jodels where = Max's is=20 much boxier. He of course is using Tracy's ECU so = clearance is not=20 an issue. As for alternators I am planning on 2 of the small 20 amp = permanent=20 magnet units of a Kubota tractor. These are tiny units and the Corvair = fellows=20 have had good success with them as well as the john Deere units. They = weigh=20 almost nothing and 2 of them would give me redundancy. In the end this = may not=20 work as the rotary is running much higher RPM than the Corvair fellows = and=20 switching pulley diameters to adjust dynamo speed may be impractical = and it=20 may make more sense to go with one of the smal 40 amp = conventional=20 alternators.
Back to the points distributor bit. = Again from=20 the Corvair crowd this is what they have been running with success. = Though=20 they do not run both points at the same time instead using a coil = switcher to select which output to feed to the single set of=20 plugs. The principle being that one can tell when the = points are=20 starting to fail giving you good warning to replace them and will run = of quite=20 low voltage should your electrics give up and if you wind up running = of the=20 battery you can run for quite some time this way. Electronics tend to = be more=20 sensitive to critical voltage levels. One of the other concerns = is at the=20 RPM we would, run we could see issues of points bounce and this = may=20 negate their use. The Corvair folks have been recently doing a=20 combination of one set of points and a electronic Crane pick up unit = fitted in=20 place of the second set of points to get the best of both worlds. This = may be=20 an idea I can use and adapt one of my older style low distributors to=20 electronic pickups.
 
In the end it all may not work, and = going the=20 proven way, ie fuel injection and Tracy's ECU as most are doing and = have=20 proven works may be the right thing to do.
 
Michael
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer
 
Michael,
     You mentioned a distributor.......Are = you to=20 be carburated and use
an early point type or electronic dist. which are very tall=20 ?..........The
waterpump/thermostat housing can be shortened and the = alternator
relocated to the side leaving the stock waterpump in=20 place.........If
you use Tracys EC2 the tall dist. is eliminated and replaced = with=20 the
short 86-91 ignition POS (position=20 sensor)..........FWIW

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.=20
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.5/1399 - Release Date:=20 26/04/2008 2:17 PM
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