X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2735159 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:49:14 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([75.191.190.141]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080218164833.HNGV20983.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 16:48:33 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c8724e$1986a850$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: staging Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:48:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01C87224.307E93D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C87224.307E93D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, you are probably right, Mark. Make not work with that much = difference betwee injectors - although the manual mixture control might = get it lean enough. =20 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 8:05 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: staging Ed,=20 Will this procedure work with different sized injectors? Don has = 295cc primaries and 610cc secondaries. Seems like that would present a = problem. =20 Mark S. 25.5 hrs =20 On 2/17/08, Ed Anderson wrote:=20 Hang in there, Don Most of us have experience similar frustration - if with perhaps = different problems. Here is one thing I can think of. You stated it does not buck with = the secondary injectors disconnected. Do you have the injector disable = switches installed? When you say disconnect - I presume you mean unplug = the electrical connectors - or is turning off power to the secondary = with the disable switch??=20 In any case, here is what I would do, I would disconnect the = electrical connection to the primary injectors - pull the electrical = connector off the primary and plug them into the secondary injectors. = Turn the secondary disable switch off. IF the engine runs fine with the = secondary now then you have shown that the problem is not the = secondary injectors. If it still bucks then you could have a bad = injector. I used to have a bad stumble when the secondary injectors were = turned on by the EC2. I had though it was too rich as well, but when I = finally hooked my EFSIM monitor and could see the air/fuel ratio = indictor as well as the bars of the fuel map. I found out it was going = too lean, enriching (increasing height of fuel map bars) eliminated the = stumble. =20 I don't have an EM2 so can't help you with why it is intermittent in = displaying pressure. But, try switching injectors wires and if you do disconnect (as = opposed to disabling with the disable switch) remember that the EC2 has = no way of knowing the two you disconnected are no longer connected. So = you need to place the disable switch to off(ground) for whichever set of = injectors you don't want operating for the test. Otherwise, the EC2 = will still assume all 4 injectors are ready to fire and it will reduce = the pulse width to the injectors by 1/2 when it goes from two to four = injectors. If only 2 injectors are connected then you will only be 1/2 = the fuel to the engine that it needs. By using the disable switch to = turn off one of the pair, the EC2 will automatically double the Pulse = width to the two remaining injectors.=20 So if you are only using two injectors with one pair disconnected, = you should turn the disable switch to off for the disconnected pair. Hopefully someone else can provide more helpful suggestion Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Don Wallker=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] staging =20 The list has been a little quiet lately, so here goes. I'm the = guy who couldn't get his Renesis going. Turns out a capacitor was = missing for the EC-2. Then it would only start on a rare occation. = Turns out it needed a 1000 ohm resistor across the CAS line as noise was = changing the timing. Now, Stageing is difficult. Auto tune isn't = really working and I have resolved that I will do it manually. It kind = of works, but takes a long time and it's easier to just do it manually. = My suspicion is that the manifold pressure is not holding steady enough, = but now I am not so sure. I even added 2 ports near the throttle body, = but it is still erratic. Even teed them together with the back ports. = Now back to staging. =20 I get up to 19 inches, the staging * turns off and the engine = start bucking. Tryed mode 6, setting for larger injectors (I am running = stock renesis 295 primaries and 610 secondaries) Still bucks. Tried = mode 6 turning down flow rate. At about 20 inches I was able to get it = to even out, but it still bucks at 19, 19.5 and it bucks so bad that I = can't get it to 21. I assume it is flooding as I was able to get it to = run at 20 inches, but can't get it to change at any other setting. The = EM-2 is erratic. The grafical mixture moniter, works and displays most = of the time at lower manifold settings, but the higher the setting, the = less it displays. At 19 inches, it only displays about 5% of the time. = Kind of hard to set things if I have no feedback. Even stuck in a new = O2 sensor to no avail. I can't run it long at these power levels, as I = quickly get to 210 degrees. My suspicion is there is a root cause of all = this EM-2 erratic displaey stuff. My very uneducated guess is that = electical noise is causing all these problems. Your thoughts?? = Solutions? To add more problems, at high temps, I heard a squeel, then it = stopped. Then it happened again. I didn't know what it was, so shut = down. Couldn't get it restarted. Pumps sounded funny and no fuel = pressure. Seems pumps over heated and cavitated as 5 minuets later, = they started working. They are shielded and with a cool tube blowing on = them. Apparently not enough. Your suggestions are very appreciated. = Tracy??? Oh, yeah. If I disconnect the secondary injectors, it won't = buck. Don Walker Frustrated RV-8 renesis builder Now I'm e-mailing the Dynon list to find out why it won't display = GPS data ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C87224.307E93D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, you are probably right, Mark.  Make = not work=20 with that much difference betwee injectors - although the manual mixture = control=20 might get it lean enough. 
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 = 8:05=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = staging

Ed,
Will this procedure work with different sized injectors?  = Don has=20 295cc primaries and 610cc secondaries.  Seems like that would = present a=20 problem. 
 
Mark S.
25.5 hrs

 
On 2/17/08, Ed=20 Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:=20
Hang in there, Don
 
Most of us have experience similar = frustration - if=20 with perhaps different problems.
 
Here is one thing I can think of.  You = stated it=20 does not buck with the secondary injectors disconnected.  Do = you have=20 the injector disable switches installed?  When you say = disconnect=20 - I presume you mean unplug the electrical connectors - or is = turning=20 off power to the secondary with the disable = switch?? 
 
  In any case, here is what I would do, = I would=20 disconnect the electrical connection to the primary injectors - pull = the=20 electrical connector off the primary and plug them into the = secondary=20 injectors.  Turn the secondary disable switch off.  IF the = engine=20 runs fine with the secondary now  then you have shown that the=20 problem  is not the secondary injectors.  If it still = bucks then=20 you could have a bad injector.
 
I used to have a bad stumble when the = secondary=20 injectors were turned on by the EC2.  I had though it was too = rich as=20 well, but when I finally hooked my EFSIM monitor and could see the = air/fuel=20 ratio indictor as well as the bars of the fuel map.  I found = out it was=20 going too lean, enriching (increasing height of fuel map bars) = eliminated=20 the stumble.  
 
I don't have an EM2 so can't help you with = why it is=20 intermittent in displaying pressure.
 
  But, try switching injectors wires = and if you=20 do disconnect (as opposed to disabling with the disable switch) = remember=20 that the EC2 has no way of knowing the two you disconnected are = no=20 longer connected.  So you need to place the disable switch to=20 off(ground) for whichever set of injectors you don't want operating = for the=20 test.  Otherwise, the EC2 will still assume all 4 injectors are = ready=20 to fire and it will reduce the pulse width to the injectors by 1/2 = when it=20 goes from two to four injectors.  If only 2 injectors are = connected=20 then you will only be 1/2 the fuel to the engine that it = needs.  By=20 using the disable switch to turn off one of the pair, the EC2 will=20 automatically double the Pulse width to the two remaining injectors. =
 
So if you are only using two injectors with = one pair=20 disconnected, you should turn the disable switch to off for the = disconnected=20 pair.
 
Hopefully someone else can provide more = helpful=20 suggestion
 
Ed
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From: = Don Wallker =
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Thursday, February = 28, 2008=20 8:23 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = staging

 
The list has been a little quiet = lately, so=20 here goes.  I'm the guy who couldn't get his Renesis going. = Turns out=20 a capacitor was missing for the EC-2.  Then it would only = start on a=20 rare occation.  Turns out it needed a 1000 ohm resistor = across the=20 CAS line as noise was changing the timing.  Now, Stageing is=20 difficult.  Auto tune isn't really working and I have = resolved that I=20 will do it manually.  It kind of works, but takes a long time = and=20 it's easier to just do it manually.  My suspicion is that the = manifold pressure is not holding steady enough, but now I am not = so=20 sure.  I even added 2 ports near the throttle body, but it is = still=20 erratic.  Even teed them together with the back ports.  = Now back=20 to staging. 
I get up to 19 inches, the = staging *=20 turns off and the engine start bucking.  Tryed mode 6, = setting for=20 larger injectors (I am running stock renesis 295 primaries and 610 = secondaries)  Still bucks.  Tried mode 6 turning down = flow=20 rate.  At about 20 inches I was able to get it to even out, = but it=20 still bucks at 19, 19.5 and it bucks so bad that I can't get it to = 21.  I assume it is flooding as I was able to get it to run = at 20=20 inches, but can't get it to change at any other setting.  The = EM-2 is=20 erratic.  The grafical mixture moniter, works and displays = most of=20 the time at lower manifold settings, but the higher the setting, = the less=20 it displays.  At 19 inches, it only displays about 5% of the=20 time. Kind of hard to set things if I have no = feedback. =20 Even stuck in a new O2 sensor to no avail.   I = can't run it=20 long at these power levels, as I quickly get to 210 degrees. My = suspicion=20 is there is a root cause of all this EM-2 erratic displaey = stuff.  My=20 very uneducated guess is that electical noise is causing all these = problems.  Your thoughts??  Solutions?
To add more problems, at high = temps, I heard=20 a squeel, then it stopped.  Then it happened again.  I = didn't=20 know what it was, so shut down.  Couldn't get it = restarted. =20 Pumps sounded funny and no fuel pressure.  Seems pumps over = heated=20 and cavitated as 5 minuets later, they started working.  They = are=20 shielded and with a cool tube blowing on them. Apparently not=20 enough.  Your suggestions are very appreciated.  = Tracy??? =20 Oh, yeah.  If I disconnect the secondary injectors, it won't=20 buck.
 
Don Walker
Frustrated RV-8 renesis = builder
 
Now I'm e-mailing the Dynon list = to find out=20 why it won't display GPS=20 = data

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