X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from is1.mum.edu ([69.18.50.66] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2725088 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:40:15 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.18.50.66; envelope-from=rob@mum.edu Received: from AcerComm1 ([10.10.0.196]) by is1.mum.edu (8.13.3+Sun/8.13.3) with SMTP id m1BIdNUF018784 for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:39:27 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <01fa01c86cdd$7962cef0$c4000a0a@AcerComm1> From: "Rob" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:39:36 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F7_01C86CAB.29331480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F7_01C86CAB.29331480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, Please keep us informed about the manifold maker. I need one for my 20B = also. BD-4 with 20B. Robert Robert Bollinger FM1099 MUM Fairfield, IA 52557 rob@mum.edu =20 Home (641)472-7000ex2068 Cell (641)919-3213 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:51 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Tracy Says the drive will handle 400 HP at take-off, and I won't be = using the stock turbos. I'm being told that the TO4 that John Slade is = using is under-sized for the 20B, so I am researching what the next step = up is. There is also a guy in LA that builds manifolds that are = supposedly immaculate, and inexpensive, we'll see. I think limiting it = to 6000 rpm makes total sense. Anyhow, heading to the shop for a = grinding session, have a great day!! Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wrjjrs@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 8:43 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Ernest, The 20B will easily hold up to 400 HP. The real question is = will the Redrive? The only source for a drive that is designed to handle = that type of power is the Mistral planetary. They are turboing the 20B = engine to 360 HP for certification. If Greg uses 400 for short periods = he should be fine, If he has an adaquate drive. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:08 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Greg Ward wrote:=20 >=20 > O.K., time to throw a little F matter into the fan. I am sitting = in my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, and a relatively new 20B "D" = series on a palette. I got the engine complete with everything it had in = the Cosmo that it came out of. There isn't even a coat of grease on this = thing. Radiator, oil cooler, air conditioner, condenser, ECU, injectors, = coils, motor mounts, and about 100 pounds of extra stuff came with it. = My buddy (he has been selling engines for 15 years) in LA that sold me = this engine ($4500.00) is in constant contact with people who race this = motor, and I am getting a lot of input on how to set this thing up. I = have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and plan on generating 400 HP on take = -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My max rpm will be 8000. You have no = idea how much input I am getting from the racing set. They are saying = that with a variable boost (electronic) controller, I can vary the boost = at any given altitude, as much or as little as I want, and tweak this = thing for max performance. They can't believe that I am asking so little = from this engine.=20 >=20 > This will get us started;=20 > Greg=20 > Greg, I don't want to rain on your parade, but there are three = questions you have to ask yourself:=20 =20 - Can I reliably pull that many horses out of the motor for hours on = end?=20 - Can I carry enough fuel to support pulling that many horses for = hours on end?=20 - Can I keep the engine from melting while pull that many horses out = of it?=20 =20 It's been demonstrated on this list several times that not = everything from racing translates directly to airplanes. For instance, = 400Hp will require twice the radiator volume that most of us are using, = along with the larger associated ducting and cooling drag. Will the = reduction in reliability and increased fuel burn be paid for by the = extra speed once the effects of the extra weight and cooling drag are = factored in? ie, you will go faster, just not as much as "double the Hp" = would imply, because of the cooling drag. I don't think most racers have = to worry about that to much, but you could wind-up with a system that = just cost you more to go to only relatively close places faster.=20 =20 --=20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ------=_NextPart_000_01F7_01C86CAB.29331480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg,
Please keep us informed about the = manifold maker. I=20 need one for my 20B also.
BD-4 with 20B.
Robert
Robert Bollinger
FM1099 MUM
Fairfield, IA 52557
rob@mum.edu 
Home=20 (641)472-7000ex2068
Cell     (641)919-3213
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg=20 Ward
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 = 10:51=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = burn

Tracy Says the drive will handle 400 HP at = take-off, and=20 I won't be using the stock turbos.  I'm being told that the TO4 = that John=20 Slade is using is under-sized for the 20B, so I am researching what = the next=20 step up is.  There is also a guy in LA that builds manifolds that = are=20 supposedly immaculate, and inexpensive, we'll see.  I think = limiting it=20 to 6000 rpm makes total sense.  Anyhow, heading to the shop for a = grinding session, have a great day!!
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 wrjjrs@aol.com=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, February 11, = 2008 8:43=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = burn

Ernest, The 20B will easily hold up to 400 HP. The = real=20 question is will the Redrive? The only source for a drive that = is=20 designed to handle that type of power is the Mistral planetary. They = are=20 turboing the 20B engine to 360 HP for certification. If Greg uses = 400 for=20 short periods he should be fine, If he has an adaquate = drive.
Bill=20 Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest = Christley=20 <echristley@nc.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:08=20 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn

Greg=20 Ward wrote: 
> 
> O.K., time to throw a little = F=20 matter into the fan. I am sitting in my new shop, with a Lancair = Legacy RG,=20 and a relatively new 20B "D" series on a palette. I got the engine = complete=20 with everything it had in the Cosmo that it came out of. There isn't = even a=20 coat of grease on this thing. Radiator, oil cooler, air conditioner, = condenser, ECU, injectors, coils, motor mounts, and about 100 pounds = of=20 extra stuff came with it. My buddy (he has been selling engines for = 15=20 years) in LA that sold me this engine ($4500.00) is in constant = contact with=20 people who race this motor, and I am getting a lot of input on how = to set=20 this thing up. I have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and plan on = generating 400=20 HP on take -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My max rpm will be = 8000. You=20 have no idea how much input I am getting from the racing set. They = are=20 saying that with a variable boost (electronic) controller, I can = vary the=20 boost at any given altitude, as much or as little as I want, and = tweak this=20 thing for max performance. They can't believe that I am asking so = little=20 from this engine. 
> 
> This will get us=20 started; 
> Greg 
> Greg, I don't want to rain = on your=20 parade, but there are three questions you have to ask=20 yourself: 
 
- Can I reliably pull that many horses = out of=20 the motor for hours on end? 
- Can I carry enough fuel to = support=20 pulling that many horses for hours on end? 
- Can I keep the = engine=20 from melting while pull that many horses out of = it? 
 
It's=20 been demonstrated on this list several times that not everything = from racing=20 translates directly to airplanes. For instance, 400Hp will require = twice the=20 radiator volume that most of us are using, along with the larger = associated=20 ducting and cooling drag. Will the reduction in reliability and = increased=20 fuel burn be paid for by the extra speed once the effects of the = extra=20 weight and cooling drag are factored in? ie, you will go faster, = just not as=20 much as "double the Hp" would imply, because of the cooling drag. I = don't=20 think most racers have to worry about that to much, but you could = wind-up=20 with a system that just cost you more to go to only relatively close = places=20 faster. 
 
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Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ 
Archive and = UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l 
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