X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from QMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.96] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2724867 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 11:51:29 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.62.96; envelope-from=gregw@onestopdesign.biz Received: from OMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.43]) by QMTA09.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oDyJ1Y00V0vyq2s590EB00; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:50:13 +0000 Received: from gregoryii ([24.6.40.29]) by OMTA05.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id oGqf1Y0020dkeQQ3R00000; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 16:50:41 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=CjAUDobXsyfJgcsf790A:9 a=QS3_lVQNMIapo7rTHMIA:7 a=KHY6N9cJebFbjUD8lHLCYU4Ry6gA:4 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=8UL1S1SzPDgA:10 a=d46lUuF_AAAA:8 a=9f2fj4vSuVBnUzLMwUEA:9 a=2cnScZu8Ir1p1VglaDIA:7 a=SIvjAHgXcjZDAJPPxak502A6tIwA:4 a=nzsYJDvBqywA:10 a=AfD3MYMu9mQA:10 Message-ID: <005001c86cce$5b53f1f0$8801a8c0@yosemite.onestopdesign.biz> From: "Greg Ward" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:51:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004D_01C86C8B.4C0921E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C86C8B.4C0921E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy Says the drive will handle 400 HP at take-off, and I won't be = using the stock turbos. I'm being told that the TO4 that John Slade is = using is under-sized for the 20B, so I am researching what the next step = up is. There is also a guy in LA that builds manifolds that are = supposedly immaculate, and inexpensive, we'll see. I think limiting it = to 6000 rpm makes total sense. Anyhow, heading to the shop for a = grinding session, have a great day!! Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wrjjrs@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 8:43 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Ernest, The 20B will easily hold up to 400 HP. The real question is = will the Redrive? The only source for a drive that is designed to handle = that type of power is the Mistral planetary. They are turboing the 20B = engine to 360 HP for certification. If Greg uses 400 for short periods = he should be fine, If he has an adaquate drive. Bill Jepson -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Christley To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:08 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Greg Ward wrote:=20 >=20 > O.K., time to throw a little F matter into the fan. I am sitting in = my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, and a relatively new 20B "D" = series on a palette. I got the engine complete with everything it had in = the Cosmo that it came out of. There isn't even a coat of grease on this = thing. Radiator, oil cooler, air conditioner, condenser, ECU, injectors, = coils, motor mounts, and about 100 pounds of extra stuff came with it. = My buddy (he has been selling engines for 15 years) in LA that sold me = this engine ($4500.00) is in constant contact with people who race this = motor, and I am getting a lot of input on how to set this thing up. I = have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and plan on generating 400 HP on take = -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My max rpm will be 8000. You have no = idea how much input I am getting from the racing set. They are saying = that with a variable boost (electronic) controller, I can vary the boost = at any given altitude, as much or as little as I want, and tweak this = thing for max performance. They can't believe that I am asking so little = from this engine.=20 >=20 > This will get us started;=20 > Greg=20 > Greg, I don't want to rain on your parade, but there are three = questions you have to ask yourself:=20 =20 - Can I reliably pull that many horses out of the motor for hours on = end?=20 - Can I carry enough fuel to support pulling that many horses for = hours on end?=20 - Can I keep the engine from melting while pull that many horses out = of it?=20 =20 It's been demonstrated on this list several times that not everything = from racing translates directly to airplanes. For instance, 400Hp will = require twice the radiator volume that most of us are using, along with = the larger associated ducting and cooling drag. Will the reduction in = reliability and increased fuel burn be paid for by the extra speed once = the effects of the extra weight and cooling drag are factored in? ie, = you will go faster, just not as much as "double the Hp" would imply, = because of the cooling drag. I don't think most racers have to worry = about that to much, but you could wind-up with a system that just cost = you more to go to only relatively close places faster.=20 =20 --=20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail! ------=_NextPart_000_004D_01C86C8B.4C0921E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tracy Says the drive will handle 400 HP at = take-off, and I=20 won't be using the stock turbos.  I'm being told that the TO4 that = John=20 Slade is using is under-sized for the 20B, so I am researching what the = next=20 step up is.  There is also a guy in LA that builds manifolds that = are=20 supposedly immaculate, and inexpensive, we'll see.  I think = limiting it to=20 6000 rpm makes total sense.  Anyhow, heading to the shop for a = grinding=20 session, have a great day!!
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 = 8:43=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = burn

Ernest, The 20B will easily hold up to 400 HP. The real = question is will the Redrive? The only source for a drive that is = designed to handle that type of power is the Mistral planetary. They = are=20 turboing the 20B engine to 360 HP for certification. If Greg uses 400 = for=20 short periods he should be fine, If he has an adaquate = drive.
Bill=20 Jepson


-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Christley = <echristley@nc.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 6:08=20 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn

Greg=20 Ward wrote: 
> 
> O.K., time to throw a little F = matter=20 into the fan. I am sitting in my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, = and a=20 relatively new 20B "D" series on a palette. I got the engine complete = with=20 everything it had in the Cosmo that it came out of. There isn't even a = coat of=20 grease on this thing. Radiator, oil cooler, air conditioner, = condenser, ECU,=20 injectors, coils, motor mounts, and about 100 pounds of extra stuff = came with=20 it. My buddy (he has been selling engines for 15 years) in LA that = sold me=20 this engine ($4500.00) is in constant contact with people who race = this motor,=20 and I am getting a lot of input on how to set this thing up. I have = ordered=20 Tracy's gear drive, and plan on generating 400 HP on take -off, and = about=20 75-80% at cruise. My max rpm will be 8000. You have no idea how much = input I=20 am getting from the racing set. They are saying that with a variable = boost=20 (electronic) controller, I can vary the boost at any given altitude, = as much=20 or as little as I want, and tweak this thing for max performance. They = can't=20 believe that I am asking so little from this=20 engine. 
> 
> This will get us = started; 
>=20 Greg 
> Greg, I don't want to rain on your parade, but = there are=20 three questions you have to ask yourself: 
 
- Can I = reliably=20 pull that many horses out of the motor for hours on end? 
- = Can I=20 carry enough fuel to support pulling that many horses for hours on=20 end? 
- Can I keep the engine from melting while pull that = many horses=20 out of it? 
 
It's been demonstrated on this list = several=20 times that not everything from racing translates directly to = airplanes. For=20 instance, 400Hp will require twice the radiator volume that most of us = are=20 using, along with the larger associated ducting and cooling drag. Will = the=20 reduction in reliability and increased fuel burn be paid for by the = extra=20 speed once the effects of the extra weight and cooling drag are = factored in?=20 ie, you will go faster, just not as much as "double the Hp" would = imply,=20 because of the cooling drag. I don't think most racers have to worry = about=20 that to much, but you could wind-up with a system that just cost you = more to=20 go to only relatively close places=20 faster. 
 
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