X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.12.143.99] (HELO imo-m11.mail.aol.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2724708 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:30:40 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.99; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-m11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r9.3.) id q.d1e.1b324fba (30739) for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:29:55 -0500 (EST) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:29:54 EST Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1202743794" X-Mailer: Unknown sub 36 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1202743794 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you just want comments, I have a few? The race cars have huge radiators. Much bigger than you can hide in an airplane. Continuous power is a test of the heat transfer rate. As you have noticed there has always been a problem getting a balance between cooling drag and cooling at all. I have had cooling problems on very hot days using the biggest radiator that Griffin makes. Also its a double pass layout, and I am at 125 HP per rotor. This is with three 13 row Setrab oil coolers. When the temps are above 95 degrees, my coolant is at 190 degrees and oil at 200. The three rotor has a very long path for coolant flow and an extra housing pouring in the heat. This is not to say it is not possible. But save that 8,000 RPM idea for something AAA can handle in a street car. That may be the rev limit in a Cosmo or even 8,500 RPM but that is for short bursts (Pun) when shifting gears and the Cosmos are all automatics?. At high revs the engine starts to lean on the oil temps real heavy. Fuel consumption will be way up along with wear rates. Base engine RPM on propeller tip speed (well subsonic) more like 7,000 RPM for take off and 6,000 or even 5,500 for cruise. The engine will be very happy between 6,000 and 6,500 RPM. The turbos that come on the engine are not suitable for aircraft use. They will over-speed and come apart as you climb. Too little resistance. If the exhaust side fails, the pieces will be in the muffler. If the compressor wheel fails, the engine will be in the muffler. If these are road racers just smile and say thank you. If they are drag racers, explain that you need the engine to last for more than 9 seconds. Road Racer, Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 2/11/2008 1:51:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gregw@onestopdesign.biz writes: O.K., time to throw a little F matter into the fan. I am sitting in my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, and a relatively new 20B "D" series on a palette. I got the engine complete with everything it had in the Cosmo that it came out of. There isn't even a coat of grease on this thing. Radiator, oil cooler, air conditioner, condenser, ECU, injectors, coils, motor mounts, and about 100 pounds of extra stuff came with it. My buddy (he has been selling engines for 15 years) in LA that sold me this engine ($4500.00) is in constant contact with people who race this motor, and I am getting a lot of input on how to set this thing up. I have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and plan on generating 400 HP on take -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My max rpm will be 8000. You have no idea how much input I am getting from the racing set. They are saying that with a variable boost (electronic) controller, I can vary the boost at any given altitude, as much or as little as I want, and tweak this thing for max performance. They can't believe that I am asking so little from this engine. This will get us started; Greg **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48) -------------------------------1202743794 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you just want comments, I have a few?
 
The race cars have huge radiators. Much bigger than you can hid= e in=20 an airplane. Continuous power is a test of the heat transfer rate. As you ha= ve=20 noticed there has always been a problem getting a balance between cooling dr= ag=20 and cooling at all. I have had cooling problems on very hot days using the=20 biggest radiator that Griffin makes. Also its a double pass layout, and I am= at=20 125 HP per rotor. This is with three 13 row Setrab oil coolers. When the tem= ps=20 are above 95 degrees, my coolant is at 190 degrees and oil at=20 200.
 
The three rotor has a very long path for coolant flow and an ex= tra=20 housing pouring in the heat.
 
This is not to say it is not possible. But save that 8,000 RPM=20= idea=20 for something AAA can handle in a street car. That may be the rev limit in a= =20 Cosmo or even 8,500 RPM but that is for short bursts (Pun) when shifting gea= rs=20 and the Cosmos are all automatics?. At high revs the engine starts to lean o= n=20 the oil temps real heavy. Fuel consumption will be way up along with wear ra= tes.=20
 
Base engine RPM on propeller tip speed (well subsonic) more lik= e=20 7,000 RPM for take off and 6,000 or even 5,500 for cruise. The engine will b= e=20 very happy between 6,000 and 6,500 RPM.
 
The turbos that come on the engine are not suitable for aircraf= t=20 use. They will over-speed and come apart as you climb. Too little resistance= . If=20 the exhaust side fails, the pieces will be in the muffler. If the compressor= =20 wheel fails, the engine will be in the muffler.
 
If these are road racers just smile and say thank you. If they=20= are=20 drag racers, explain that you need the engine to last for more than 9=20 seconds.
 
Road Racer, Lynn E. Hanover  
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/11/2008 1:51:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 gregw@onestopdesign.biz writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>
O.K., time to throw a little F matter into the=20 fan.  I am sitting in my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, and a=20 relatively new 20B "D" series on a palette.  I got the engine complet= e=20 with everything it had in the Cosmo that it came out of.  There isn't= =20 even a coat of grease on this thing.  Radiator, oil cooler, air=20 conditioner, condenser, ECU, injectors, coils, motor mounts, and about 100= =20 pounds of extra stuff came with it.  My buddy (he has been selling=20 engines for 15 years) in LA that sold me this engine ($4500.00) is in cons= tant=20 contact with people who race this motor, and I am getting a lot of input o= n=20 how to set this thing up.  I have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and pla= n on=20 generating 400 HP on take -off, and about 75-80% at cruise.  My max r= pm=20 will be 8000.  You have no idea how much input I am getting from the=20 racing set.  They are saying that with a variable boost (electro= nic)=20 controller, I can vary the boost at any given altitude, as much or as litt= le=20 as I want, and tweak this thing for max performance.  They can't beli= eve=20 that I am asking so little from this engine.
 
This will get us started;
Greg



<= DIV>
Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL M= usic. -------------------------------1202743794--