X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2.0) with ESMTP id 2724440 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:16:04 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([75.191.190.141]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20080211121524.JZYU22052.cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:15:24 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c86ca7$cfebbb50$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Turbo Caution[FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 07:15:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01C86C7D.E6C6F710" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C86C7D.E6C6F710 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg, Sounds like you are about to enter the "Fun Zone".=20 This may have been mentioned before, but, if you are going to = turbocharge your 20B be advised the stock turbochargers are simply not = designed and will not withstand (for long) the stress of continuous = high altitude boost. Several folks have tried it with the stock 2 rotor = turbo only to have the turbine section demonstrate its inability to = withstand the stress. It appears that at least one individual has = managed to keep his stock turbo installation intact by running low = levels of boost < 5 psi. Several have found that a set of modifications = to the stock turbo compressor and turbine section can improve its = survivability, but probably best to go with a turbocharger designed for = continuous high power operation.=20 Others may want to chime in here to point Greg down the right path. Two = fellows from South Carolina have a turbo 20B that was dynoed to over 500 = HPthey have in a Lancair 4. =20 Its really going to be a moving machine. Good luck Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn O.K., time to throw a little F matter into the fan. I am sitting in = my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, and a relatively new 20B "D" = series on a palette. I got the engine complete with everything it had = in the Cosmo that it came out of. There isn't even a coat of grease on = this thing. Radiator, oil cooler, air conditioner, condenser, ECU, = injectors, coils, motor mounts, and about 100 pounds of extra stuff came = with it. My buddy (he has been selling engines for 15 years) in LA that = sold me this engine ($4500.00) is in constant contact with people who = race this motor, and I am getting a lot of input on how to set this = thing up. I have ordered Tracy's gear drive, and plan on generating 400 = HP on take -off, and about 75-80% at cruise. My max rpm will be 8000. = You have no idea how much input I am getting from the racing set. They = are saying that with a variable boost (electronic) controller, I can = vary the boost at any given altitude, as much or as little as I want, = and tweak this thing for max performance. They can't believe that I am = asking so little from this engine. This will get us started; Greg ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Greg Ward=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Yeah, I would be interested in this one too, as I am looking at = prop options too. Greg (Lancair, on the ground, in the new shop, mating with a 20B as of = this weekend....(:-) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Charlie England=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 4:06 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Hi Mark, Isn't 7000/2.85=3D2456.14 ?? Is the M/T optimized (diameter, pitch, twist) for turning only = 2150rpm? Charlie Mark Steitle wrote:=20 Al,=20 Yes, I'm running one of Tracy's 2.85:1.00 boxes. Mark =20 On Feb 10, 2008 12:20 PM, Al Gietzen = wrote: Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel burn Thanks, good data Al. I'm sure that some of the differences = we're seeing are due to altitude. So far, I've stayed fairly low = (3000-5000'). I may try some higher altitude flight soon just to see = how it changes my performance numbers. Another difference is that I = have a M/T electric constant speed prop. I normally set it to 2150rpm = for takeoff. This allows the engine to turn around 7000 rpm, which will = account some for the higher fuel burn I'm seeing. My airport is at 520' = msl, so there's a 1000' difference there from your 1500' msl airport. = Yes, she really accelerates down the runway. I'm usually airborne in = about 900-1000'. =20 Mark I'm not sure I see how these correlate "set it to 2150rpm = for takeoff. This allows the engine to turn around 7000 rpm,"; but the = big difference is that you're putting out more horses than I am. At = 7000 you're likely looking at about 300 hp, so 25-26 gph would be = expected. Are you running a 2.85 ratio redrive; or something else? Al -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C86C7D.E6C6F710 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greg, Sounds like you are about to enter the = "Fun=20 Zone". 
 
 This may have been mentioned before, but, = if you are=20 going to turbocharge your 20B be advised the stock turbochargers are = simply not=20 designed and will not withstand (for long)  the stress of = continuous high=20 altitude boost.  Several folks have tried it with the stock 2 rotor = turbo=20 only to have the turbine section demonstrate its inability to withstand = the=20 stress.  It appears that at least one individual has managed to = keep his=20 stock turbo installation intact by running low levels of boost < 5 = psi. =20 Several have found that a set of modifications to the stock turbo = compressor and=20 turbine section can improve its survivability, but probably best to go = with a=20 turbocharger designed for continuous high power operation.
 
Others may want to chime in here to point Greg = down the=20 right path.  Two fellows from South Carolina have a turbo 20B that = was=20 dynoed to over 500 HPthey have in a Lancair 4. 
 
Its really going to be a moving = machine.
 
Good luck
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered
Matthews,=20 NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.comhttp://www.andersonee.com
http:/= /members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg=20 Ward
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 = 1:50=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel = burn

 

O.K., time to throw a little F matter into = the=20 fan.  I am sitting in my new shop, with a Lancair Legacy RG, = and a=20 relatively new 20B "D" series on a palette.  I got the engine = complete=20 with everything it had in the Cosmo that it came out of.  There = isn't=20 even a coat of grease on this thing.  Radiator, oil cooler, air = conditioner, condenser, ECU, injectors, coils, motor mounts, and = about 100=20 pounds of extra stuff came with it.  My buddy (he has been = selling=20 engines for 15 years) in LA that sold me this engine ($4500.00) is = in=20 constant contact with people who race this motor, and I am getting a = lot of=20 input on how to set this thing up.  I have ordered Tracy's gear = drive,=20 and plan on generating 400 HP on take -off, and about 75-80% at=20 cruise.  My max rpm will be 8000.  You have no idea how = much input=20 I am getting from the racing set.  They are saying that with=20 a variable boost (electronic) controller, I can vary the boost = at any=20 given altitude, as much or as little as I want, and tweak this thing = for max=20 performance.  They can't believe that I am asking so little = from this=20 engine.
 
This will get us started;
Greg
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg Ward
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, February 10, = 2008 7:14=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fuel=20 burn

Yeah, I would be interested in this one = too, as I am=20 looking at prop options too.
Greg
(Lancair, on the ground, in the new shop, = mating=20 with a 20B as of this weekend....(:-)
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Charlie England =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, February = 10, 2008=20 4:06 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fuel=20 burn

Hi Mark,

Isn't 7000/2.85=3D2456.14 = ??

Is the=20 M/T optimized (diameter, pitch, twist) for turning only=20 2150rpm?

Charlie


Mark Steitle wrote:=20
Al,=20

Yes, I'm running one of Tracy's 2.85:1.00=20 boxes.

Mark 

On Feb 10, 2008 12:20 PM, Al Gietzen = <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Fuel=20 burn

 

Thanks, good data = Al. I'm sure=20 that some of the differences we're seeing are due to = altitude. =20 So far, I've stayed fairly low (3000-5000').  I may try = some=20 higher altitude flight soon just to see how it changes my=20 performance numbers.  Another difference is that I have = a M/T=20 electric constant speed prop.  I normally set it to = 2150rpm for=20 takeoff.  This allows the engine to turn around 7000 = rpm, which=20 will account some for the higher fuel burn I'm seeing.  = My=20 airport is at 520' msl, so there's a 1000' difference there = from=20 your 1500' msl airport.  Yes, she really accelerates = down the=20 runway.   I'm usually airborne in about = 900-1000'. =20

Mark

I'm not=20 sure I see how these correlate "set it to = 2150rpm for=20 takeoff.  This allows the engine to turn around 7000 = rpm,"; but the big = difference is that=20 you're putting out more horses than I am.  At 7000 = you're=20 likely looking at about 300 hp, so 25-26 gph would be = expected.=20  Are you running a 2.85 ratio redrive; or something=20 else?

Al

 


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