X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c4) with ESMTP id 2629876 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:14:08 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.249.82.229; envelope-from=cozy4pilot@gmail.com Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i27so2049965wxd.25 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:13:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:reply-to:from:to:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole:importance; bh=d0nxkKfTkt/ckvY5A5kymBle2fvSRSNNRyR3ieClKAE=; b=SE5Aih1FOM+/ug6QN6/27SuyaA8WPh0aUqDHGnqxmSqHFospI76f81t4VPgIx+yf9zRkfqXHiB8WGlVrfPPjJeI6cEFO6+IpZU6ImM8j4YSGTxSZ3hmznmN6gmAuGhcQgm13pQfni8umLK4SnLARxvQ7fiQOi5Ah7NofwSHwLhQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=reply-to:from:to:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:x-priority:x-msmail-priority:x-mailer:x-mimeole:importance; b=QkAZ0kotp0XlP1/2vTpp/DK41WI4suv7Kj950Fchxg/DEGjTzR4BJHuHTZcMdtC6s4RWczI9jyxaiu14Y31KMzdfM5Q/oSbTbYns7WA1wFbS2AMToKLdB5O9tFq/RB5TsSfUxde0/p/o5BHmND80f4YXVt7/25ibsPhnsxmbK9A= Received: by 10.142.83.4 with SMTP id g4mr3905843wfb.28.1199398408303; Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:13:28 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from HomePC ( [71.2.20.232]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 10sm14053351wrl.0.2008.01.03.14.13.25 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:13:26 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: From: "Steve Brooks" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Weak Spark Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 17:09:39 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0041_01C84E2B.6C9B81B0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 Importance: Normal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C84E2B.6C9B81B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Al, and Don, I also observed weak / intermittent spark on one rotor when I was working on my hard-to-start issue. I later found that on one of my plug wires, when I pushed it onto the spark plug at some time, it pushed the metal ring back into the outer sleeve rather than sliding on the plug electrode. I had that on and off several times, and never really noticed any difference. They boots slide onto the plug pretty hard anyways. It wasn’t until I measured the resistance of the plug wires, that I discovered the problem. I couldn’t even get the meter probe into the boot far enough to reach the metal ring. I also couldn’t get the boot to even slide back on the plug wire, back to the correct position, so I just replaced that wire. I didn’t re-check the spark to make sure that it was no longer intermittent, but it starts normally again, so it fixed the problem. My coils are mounted very near to the plugs, and I used high quality silicone plug wires. They were for a corvette, as I recall, and only about 6-8 inches long. Steve Brooks -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Al Gietzen Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Weak Spark All this talk of weak spark got me thinking again about my 20B. It has the stock CAS. I have found that the spark is weak and sometimes intermittent when cranking. When I noted this, I was sure something was wrong. I then checked using the Mode 8, and the spark was great. It would start and run, so I forgot about it. The engine always started and runs fine, but I have noticed more recently on cold mornings (meaning about 40F here in SoCal) that the starting was a little more hesitant, and would fire intermittently for a bit before getting going. I recall when we were checking timing on the dyno, it would not fire the timing light consistently – figured it was the light. On recent flights, on two occasions, after steady cruise for ½ hour or so; there was a very short duration power sag; just a second or two and then back to normal. No roughness; just some power loss that gets your attention, and then it’s OK. I’m burning unleaded mogas, so shouldn’t be the famous S.A.G. others have experienced. I have no explanation. These things, taken together, make me wonder if I’m really getting the strong spark I should be getting. I know that during cranking it is barely enough to fire the plugs. I haven’t checked it when running cuz it’s a little difficult to hold a wire off and see how far the spark will jump when that prop is going right there. But I guess I need to make a check of that. What sort of cranking spark should be expected? Other ideas on what to check? Is it something about the EC2 and the CAS? Al Subject: [FlyRotary] flooding I made it out to the airport today, soldered up the CAS and installed it. Before I cranked it over, I put it in mode 8 and fired it off. The usual nice blue sparks. Then set it to mode 0 and cranked with the plugs out and pumps/inj off. No spark. Cranked and looked again. Every so often there would be a weak spark or 3, but most of the time, nothing. So little or no spark ------=_NextPart_000_0041_01C84E2B.6C9B81B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Al= , and Don,

 

I = also observed weak / intermittent spark on one rotor when I was working on my hard-to-start issue.  I = later found that on one of my plug wires, when I pushed it onto the spark plug at = some time, it pushed the metal ring back into the outer sleeve rather than sliding = on the plug electrode.

 

I = had that on and off several times, and never really noticed any difference.  They boots slide onto the plug = pretty hard anyways.  It = wasn’t until I measured the resistance of the plug wires, that I discovered the = problem.  I couldn’t even get the = meter probe into the boot far enough to reach the metal ring.  I also couldn’t get the boot to even slide back = on the plug wire, back to the correct position, so I just replaced that wire.  I didn’t re-check the = spark to make sure that it was no longer intermittent, but it starts normally again, = so it fixed the problem.  My = coils are mounted very near to the plugs, and I used high quality silicone plug = wires.  They were for a corvette, as I = recall, and only about 6-8 inches long.

 

St= eve Brooks

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Al Gietzen
Sent: Thursday, January = 03, 2008 2:19 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Weak = Spark

 

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

All this talk of weak spark got me thinking again about my 20B. It has the = stock CAS. I have found that the spark is weak and sometimes intermittent when cranking.  When I noted this, I was sure something was wrong.  = I then checked using the Mode 8, and the spark was great. It would start and = run, so I forgot about it. The engine always started and runs fine, but I have = noticed more recently on cold mornings (meaning about 40F here in SoCal) that = the starting was a little more hesitant, and would fire intermittently for a = bit before getting going.

 <= /font><= /p>

I recall when we were checking timing on the dyno, it would not fire the = timing light consistently – figured it was the light.  On recent = flights, on two occasions, after steady cruise for =BD hour or so; there was a very = short duration power sag; just a second or two and then back to normal.  = No roughness; just some power loss that gets your attention, and then = it’s OK.  I’m burning unleaded mogas, so shouldn’t be the = famous S.A.G. others have experienced.  I have no explanation.<= /p>

 <= /font><= /p>

These things, taken together, make me wonder if I’m really getting the = strong spark I should be getting.  I know that during cranking it is barely enough = to fire the plugs.  I haven’t checked it when running cuz = it’s a little difficult to hold a wire off and see how far the spark will jump when = that prop is going right there.  But I guess I need to make a check of = that.<= /p>

 <= /font><= /p>

What sort of cranking spark should be expected? Other ideas on what to check? = Is it something about the EC2 and the CAS?<= /p>

 <= /font><= /p>

Al<= /p>

 <= /font><= /p>

 <= /font><= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

Subject: [FlyRotary] flooding

 <= /p>

I made it out to the airport today, soldered up the CAS and installed it.  = Before I cranked it over, I put it in mode 8 and fired it off.  The usual = nice blue sparks.  Then set it to mode 0 and cranked with the plugs out = and pumps/inj off.  No spark.  Cranked and looked again.  = Every so often there would be a weak spark or 3, but most of the time, = nothing.  So little or no spark

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