X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.248] (HELO qnsi-xch.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2571580 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:43:59 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.248; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: wide band O2 sensor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8392A.EA9D743A"; type="multipart/alternative" Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 17:43:06 -0600 Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.6944.0 X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] Re: wide band O2 sensor Thread-Index: Acg5KdOeEvn8xvXVTqyZEQrxJzC0FgAALrKw From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8392A.EA9D743A Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_002_01C8392A.EA9D743A" ------_=_NextPart_002_01C8392A.EA9D743A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed..I wish you would have told me earlier I needed a catalytic converter in after the wideband :)=20 =20 Bobby =20 (avoiding fiberglass) ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George Lendich Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 5:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: wide band O2 sensor Ed, So are you recommending narrow band sensors for Aviation use - I can't remember the argument for wide band sensors. George ( down under) I don't know whether anybody is using or contemplating using a wide band sensor for Air/Fuel ratio indications. I've looked into it and could find no advantage (for my usage) that would justify the additional cost. Apparently there is a "simulated narrowband output" which I was unaware of. =20 =20 But, here are a few other considerations that you might want to think about: at this URL :=20 http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm =20 Wideband Sensor Positioning The wideband sensor must be carefully placed in order to prevent damage to the sensor itself and to maximise accuracy. Also, if you use the sensor's output directly (via the simulated narrowband output) to drive your ECU then you should be doubly careful. Please follow all of these "rules" :=20 * The sensor should always be placed on the engine side of a catalytic converter, unless you are testing the effectiveness of the convertor itself.=20 * The gas temperature to the sensor should never exceed 850 degrees C (about 1560 degrees Fahrenheit).=20 * The sensor should never be run without power to the WB unit (a hot sensor burns off carbon residues)=20 * Always have the long axis of the sensor perpendicular to the gas flow (stops sensor clogging)=20 * Position the sensor vertically or at most between 10 o'clock to the 2 o'clock position (this avoids cracking the internal ceramic structure should moisture condense internally)=20 * We don't recommend using a short sections of exhaust pipe shoved up your tailpipe. A specially welded additional bung is the best mounting strategy.=20 The sensor reads the partial pressure of gases in the exhaust and infers the AFR, rather than by measuring some magical AFR directly. This may be an issue on forced induction, and in particular, on turbo-charged engines.=20 * AFRs will indicate richer than they are, causing you to run leaner than you think.=20 * Lean AFR's will be richer (or less lean) than indicted.=20 A solution is to ensure you locate your sensor away from the turbo, and certainly on the exhaust (low pressure) side of the turbo rather than the engine side.=20 =20 =20 =20 Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html =09 ________________________________ =09 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition.=20 Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1174 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 10:11 AM =09 ------_=_NextPart_002_01C8392A.EA9D743A Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed..I wish you would have told me = earlier=20 I needed a catalytic converter in after the wideband  =  :)=20
 
Bobby
 
(avoiding fiberglass)

From: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of George=20 Lendich
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 5:35 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: wide band O2=20 sensor

Ed,
So are you recommending narrow band = sensors for=20 Aviation use - I can't remember the argument for wide band = sensors.
George ( down under)
I don't know whether anybody is using or = contemplating=20 using a wide band sensor for Air/Fuel ratio indications.  I've = looked=20 into it and could find no advantage (for my usage) that would justify = the=20 additional cost.  Apparently there is a "simulated = narrowband=20 output" which I was unaware of.   
 
But, here are a few other considerations that = you might=20 want to think about:
at this URL :
http://www.t= echedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm
 

Wideband Sensor Positioning

The wideband sensor must be carefully placed in order to = prevent=20 damage to the sensor itself and to maximise accuracy. Also, = if you=20 use the sensor's output directly (via the simulated narrowband = output)=20 to drive your ECU then you should be doubly careful. Please follow all = of=20 these "rules" :

  • The sensor should always be placed on the engine side of a = catalytic=20 converter, unless you are testing the effectiveness of the convertor = itself.=20
  • The gas temperature to the sensor should never exceed 850 = degrees=20 C (about 1560 degrees Fahrenheit).=20
  • The sensor should never be run without power to the WB = unit (a=20 hot sensor burns off carbon residues)=20
  • Always have the long axis of the sensor perpendicular to = the gas=20 flow (stops sensor clogging)=20
  • Position the sensor vertically or at most between 10 = o'clock to=20 the 2 o'clock position (this avoids cracking the internal = ceramic=20 structure should moisture condense internally)=20
  • We don't recommend using a short sections of exhaust pipe = shoved up your tailpipe. A specially welded additional = bung is=20 the best mounting strategy.

The sensor reads the partial pressure of gases in the exhaust and = infers=20 the AFR, rather than by measuring some magical AFR directly. This may = be an=20 issue on forced induction, and in particular, on = turbo-charged=20 engines.

  • AFRs will indicate richer than they are, causing you to run = leaner than=20 you think.=20
  • Lean AFR's will be richer (or less lean) than indicted. =

A solution is to ensure you locate your sensor away from the turbo, = and=20 certainly on the exhaust (low pressure) side of the turbo rather than = the=20 engine side.

3D"Palm
 
 
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary = Powered
Matthews,=20 NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.comhttp://www.andersonee.com
http:/= /members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda= /index.html

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free = Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1174 - = Release Date:=20 6/12/2007 10:11 AM
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