X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp108.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.229.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with SMTP id 2556687 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:25:46 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.229.97; envelope-from=sladerj@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 41276 invoked from network); 5 Dec 2007 04:25:06 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=qJBNjRzZ1XHwn5JbE3EkXTpNKvPR7tni7RsllaMhJe9xkEReDzU8jFGiJ8pqam8w39cFEgZCFokrU8NE7sPpAfLXp2gebpdUe5KD2sqeiMNCNT6O70QrcRKJif9gOkT3cBncLD67Gix9N+zooU67Bj4aVM0h+aIQifqA5f84/FA= ; Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.116?) (sladerj@sbcglobal.net@75.9.133.224 with plain) by smtp108.sbc.mail.re2.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Dec 2007 04:25:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bClVrWIVM1mKUjmRk86cHZ5I6M2F1SvnSjjZs9jS_r91QQyBo7LcD4Ql7X2THB_BhToOVU0t3mEUSQjRPd7eSv6BX.7802R4f72bBOlwiYUKPyLxqltyAYTtl.lChJGR6nWpfgLo15VTaHxow4dSe4jLU03XbQjT.A-- Message-ID: <47562822.9020804@sbcglobal.net> Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:25:06 -0500 From: John Slade Reply-To: sladerj@sbcglobal.net User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: circuit breakers References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lots of good pointers on electrical systems in this thread. Anyone reading all of this discussion and trying to make sense of it - I suggest buying Bob Knuckol's book, Aeroelectric Connection. While I don't personally agree with everything in it (too much emphasis on fuses for everything, and too much background hiding the "meat", I think this book is almost required reading when wiring an experimental plane. It comes with excellent wiring diagrams and alternative methods for different airplane types. I followed the two battery, one alternator, EBus arrangement with crowbar alternator protection. Combine this info with Tracy's wiring suggestions for coils and injectors and you're almost there. The only thing I'd do different would be to use CBs for all motorized items.
John Slade
Turbo Rotary Cozy IV
96 hrs.

Al Gietzen wrote:

 

So, what's the most reliable method of getting the big fat wire from the battery (in the tail) to the essential bus at the panel?  I had initially connected this wire directly to the battery (unfused), but later added the big 60 amp fuse.  Being a fiberglass plane, would a carefully run unfused wire be preferrable to a fused wire?  Is a relay more reliable than a big fuse?  Would a solid-state relay be even better? 

Fuses are very reliable, certainly more than a relay.  I didn’t put my engine critical “bus” (actually a 6 place fuse holder) at the panel.  I preferred to put that ‘bus’ near the batteries, and then ran the smaller wires (each now protected) to the switches on the panel, and on to the engine. Things are then fault tolerant because blowing any one fuse doesn’t keep the engine from running.  Also avoids a large noisy wire at the panel; which can be more of an RF issue than the distributed smaller wires.

 

Depending on where your large wire (10 or 12 AWG?) has to run, with no risk of abrasion or shorting to other wires it can be fine unprotected.  Every case is different.

 

I have a #2 wire running from the contactor near the battery in front to the starter on the engine in the rear.  No fuse or breaker is appropriate for that.

 

I assume you wiring is all in place, and not a work in progress.

 

Al G

 

Mark S.

 

On 12/4/07, Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net> wrote:

 

That's what I did... Flight Critical bus is always hot, although I did add a 60 amp fuse back near the battery. 
 Mark S.

Is that fuse in the only power path to the engine critical bus?  I think fuses are a very reliable way to go; but for this application they are synonymous with "fault tolerance".  IOW, blowing one fuse does not shut you down.  Actually, I would also apply the fault tolerance idea to the use of breakers for critical items.

One of the nice things about our setup is we have dual plugs, dual injectors, dual controllers, and dual fuel pump. That gives you the potential for very high reliability - a failure of any one of the pair does not put you on the ground.  I chose to use a separate circuit to each to gain failure tolerance. Each circuit is protected with a fuse, and the fuse holder is powered directly from both batteries with isolation diodes so even a battery failure doesn't stop the engine.

Wires are cheap and light and very reliable. Fuses cost only pennies, so change them out and check the contacts every annual, or every 6 months if you feel like it. I like that better than a breaker that has been in the panel for 10 years. Fault tolerance = high reliability. (I almost said – fuses and fault tolerance, but I don't want to start that fuses vs breakers discussion again J )

FWIW,

Al