X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.233.170.187] (HELO rn-out-0102.google.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2450168 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:09:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.170.187; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by rn-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id e13so243142rng for ; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:08:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=F8C+DRdNpSQD9n0wky1c52dO25h1SOeJedGgVH+cUgQ=; b=drkMsO4TC+fhtcbCwee66GZeUTt/2uzv3+KsYVz5b/wKyW3q/3Fn3eLoqMkeXx43sy/Ep9Mo3AREVXea99PU1Wq17DfhvxjvcD2wh+OVNHGzjrJr40GRlxcAxoAM3KlN2K+aOhRNiH28eUDv6aOaOctnr3yduyvl6q+e2iApxtI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=TBtLUq0o+DtI35Tuh0hQGIHxRovstsVA0SwKPZSFv9DHMuu8j0Hq4Uuwb7S8iXlgWFwkOVtKVtl+vO5nL7zcykWldy/QcFDUpzNyTzN9fNsnrPi3XAgmUe/o4H4GC6ZsNntNbUjPBajy2U4A3GJpFIJMrPzF2opn7/dok4eHWeQ= Received: by 10.142.113.17 with SMTP id l17mr132855wfc.1193929726466; Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.143.14.7 with HTTP; Thu, 1 Nov 2007 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <1b4b137c0711010808g2b5e8f13j8247d87594db8266@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:08:46 -0400 From: "Tracy Crook" Sender: rwstracy@gmail.com To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Copperstate Fly-in report (interim) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12286_33100468.1193929726459" References: X-Google-Sender-Auth: 5cc8e6e3521975ab ------=_Part_12286_33100468.1193929726459 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dale wrote: Was he (P.L.) accurate, when he stated that everyone who has used the EC2 has had problems? *HE* had problems using the EC2 and I think in his universe, that is everyone. From reports received later, his problems were mainly related to his reluctance to follow the instructions. (Based on his experiences with the ill fated test of Mark Sapenski's (Sp?) engine with the EC2 at Mazdatrix. See previous post about this in the archives) That is not to say that no one has any problems when installing EC2s. A brain fade can happen to anyone. My first three installations went off without a hitch but on the last one (the 20B) I had all kinds of problems. Some were related to it being a new version and some were just plain dumb mistakes. Other builder results are all over the map from "fired it up and it ran perfect" to " I almost gave up before it finally ran right". In a world populated by mere mortals, this is perfectly normal. To summarize, YMMV. Tracy On 10/26/07, Dale Rogers wrote: > > Hi All, > > Has anyone heard from Al Gietzen since yesterday morning? While many of > you have been having fun at Shady Bend, I've been sitting here at the > Copperstate Fly-in (the only place I could afford to > travel to this year) listening to ... > . > . > . > P.L. > . > . > discoursing on aspects of using the rotary engine in an aviation > application. I think this is the first time I've ever heard > him. Interesting ... > > I was a bit surprised, given the level of friction that I'd heard between > P.L. and certain folks here, that he spoke reasonably well of Tracy C. - > especially of the RWS Re-drive - until he got to engine control > computers. He recommended staying with the Mazda controls and coils. > > Was he accurate, when he stated that everyone who has used the EC2 has had > problems? He made that claim in the context of the "35 little wires" that > have to be hooked up; so understandably, there is a lot of opportunity do it > wrong. But has there been NO one who got it right on the first hook up? I > suspect that this is only one of several > bits of mis-information that was passed out. > > Much of the rest of his - admittedly, improptu - presentation echoed > recent discussions here on hoses and constant force clams, and speaking > disparagingly of the LS-1 ignition coils. > > Those of you who are on both lists, have there been similar discussions on > P.L.'s list? > > Al, if you are there, and your house hasn't burned down, and your family > is okay, and you can get to your airplane tomorrow morning ... could you > make it out here for tomorrow's scheduled session? Pretty please? It might > save some folks from walking away with some serious misconceptions about > using the rotary in aviation. > > As an aside, there is a company called Rotary Aircraft Engines with a > display here (NOT a running engine - maybe just an empty shell.) Allegedly, > 130 pounds (all aluminum) 160 horsepower. Two plugs per rotor, but no > "leading / trailing" - two "peanut" plugs, side-by-side. They said it was > an outgrowth of a rotary for marine applications. Maybe > that's why the display model impressed me as manifestly UNsuitable for an > airplane. Each rotor had its own throttle body injection (looked to be > about 32mm) on a relatively short tube (maybe 7" to port end in the housing > liner - and ONLY ONE INJECTOR! They obviously hadn't read the in-depth > analysis of Paul Connor's crash. > > Best Regards, > Dale R. > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > ------=_Part_12286_33100468.1193929726459 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Dale wrote:
 
Was he (P.L.) accurate, when he stated that everyone who has used the EC2 has had problems?
 
 
 *HE*  had problems using the EC2 and I think in his universe, that is everyone.   From reports received later, his problems were mainly related to his reluctance to follow the instructions.  (Based on his experiences with the ill fated test of Mark Sapenski's (Sp?) engine with the EC2 at Mazdatrix.  See previous post about this in the archives) 
 
That is not to say that no one has any problems when installing EC2s.  A brain fade can happen to anyone.  My first three installations went off without a hitch but on the last one (the 20B) I had all kinds of problems.  Some were related to it being a new version and some were just plain  dumb mistakes.
 
Other builder results are all over the map from "fired it up and it ran perfect" to " I almost gave up before it finally ran right".   In a world populated by mere mortals, this is perfectly normal. 
 
To summarize, YMMV.
 
Tracy


 
On 10/26/07, Dale Rogers <dale.r@cox.net> wrote:
Hi All,

Has anyone heard from Al Gietzen since yesterday morning?  While many of you have been having fun at Shady Bend, I've been sitting here at the Copperstate Fly-in (the only place I could afford to
travel to this year) listening to ...
.
.
.
P.L.
.
.
discoursing on aspects of using the rotary engine in an aviation application.  I think this is the first time I've ever heard him.  Interesting ...

I was a bit surprised, given the level of friction that I'd heard between P.L. and certain folks here, that he spoke reasonably well of Tracy C. - especially of the RWS Re-drive - until he got to engine control computers.  He recommended staying with the Mazda controls and coils.

Was he accurate, when he stated that everyone who has used the EC2 has had problems?  He made that claim in the context of the "35 little wires" that have to be hooked up; so understandably, there is a lot of opportunity do it wrong.  But has there been NO one who got it right on the first hook up?  I suspect that this is only one of several
bits of mis-information that was passed out.

Much of the rest of his - admittedly, improptu - presentation echoed recent discussions here on hoses and constant force clams, and speaking disparagingly of the LS-1 ignition coils.

Those of you who are on both lists, have there been similar discussions on P.L.'s list?

Al, if you are there, and your house hasn't burned down, and your family is okay, and you can get to your airplane tomorrow morning ... could you make it out here for tomorrow's scheduled session?  Pretty please?  It might save some folks from walking away with some serious misconceptions about using the rotary in aviation.

As an aside, there is a company called Rotary Aircraft Engines with a display here (NOT a running engine - maybe just an empty shell.)  Allegedly, 130 pounds (all aluminum) 160 horsepower.  Two plugs per rotor, but no "leading / trailing" - two "peanut" plugs, side-by-side.  They said it was an outgrowth of a rotary for marine applications.  Maybe
that's why the display model impressed me as manifestly UNsuitable for an airplane.  Each rotor had its own throttle body injection (looked to be about 32mm) on a relatively short tube (maybe 7" to port end in the housing liner - and ONLY ONE INJECTOR!  They obviously hadn't read the in-depth analysis of Paul Connor's crash.

Best Regards,
Dale R.


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

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