X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.2c1) with ESMTP id 2440875 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:40:53 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.121; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20071031014016.MNWZ3242.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:40:16 +0000 Message-ID: <003e01c81b5f$034efb50$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Cross Country Report Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:40:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003B_01C81B3D.7BE52930" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C81B3D.7BE52930 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave, glad you made it. Yes, really made it a gloomy week on my end = thinking about all the fun all you folks were having while I kept = pulling the curtains back looking at the ceiling {:>) Thanks for the data, I'll look into the fuel calibration procedure = again. I would normally expect it to settle down by now. Tell me once = again the flow rate of your primary and secondary injectors, then I'll = go back and look to see if I perhaps screwed up the calculation. I = would normally expect to see the error being less than 0.5 gallons out = of a 37 gallon tank of fuel. Naturally, the process depends on accuracy = in measuring input, but most tank pumps are pretty good. More = importantly, I would expect it to stabilize, so need to look into it. It looks like an average of about 2.35 gallons per fill-up ranging from = an error of 3.8 gallons to 0.8 gallons and I know we can do better than = that. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Leonard=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:04 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary Cross Country Report Ed, Really Sorry you couldn't make it as well. Sure would have been nice = to finally meet you. I don't think I have to tell you how much fun you = missed. The fuel monitor worked really well and I was happy to show it off to = anyone interested, including Tracy.=20 I'm still having the occasional problem with freeze-up, with 9 of them = recorded on my trip. Calibration also seems to be going slower than = expected. I must have done 5 or 6 of them before I left for the trip, = but it still never seems to change. Here are the actual and predicted = fuel usages for my trip. I did a calibration with each fill-up:=20 Actual Predicted 23.2 24.2 25.2 29.0 22.7 23.6 26.2 31.3 24.2 26.7 25.3 26.5 26.0 29.5 25.7 26.5 At least it always errors on the conservative side and is usually not = off by much. Maybe I am not doing the calibrations correctly, but I am = pretty sure I am following your instructions. Any suggestions?=20 All in all, I cant believe I ever flew without it. Sure makes fuel = calculations much easier. Recommendations now that I have some more x-country experience with = it: put the mixture bar on all 4 of the main operation screens. I = mostly prefer to fly with the fuel flow/fuel remaining screen, but would = like to see the mixture bar there as well (though it does not matter = much, because I am usually off the scale to the lean side anyway).=20 Hope to see you at next year's round-up! Dave On Oct 30, 2007 9:17 AM, Ed Anderson = wrote:=20 Yee Hah! is right, Dave. Some very nice numbers. Nice to still = have that power available at the higher altitudes with that = turbocharger. My 15.5 MSL days are behind me, once I get to about = 12000, the old body wants its own turbocharger {:>). By the way, sorry I did not make it down to meet you.Wanted to hear = your session on turbocharging. I also had another backboard which = increases the EFISM display intensity which I was going to bring with = me. Since it plugs into the back of the front panel, you would probably = have no problem just unplugging the current back board and plugging in = the brighter one OR you can ship it back and I can do it. Next time Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: David Leonard=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Rotary Cross Country Report I just finished a most excellent cross country in my Rotary RV-6 = and wanted to share the stats and the adventure. I visited family in = Boulder, CO, friends in Pensacola, and spent a week in Orlando including = watching the shuttle launch and going to the rotary round up in Bell, = Fl. I also delivered a prop to its buyer in Austin TX and traversed the = country westbound in a single day.=20 Best leg (Strong tailwinds fading in the end): K88-82J, 601 NM = and 2.9 hrs on the hobbs. 23.6 gallons of MOGAS burned that I bought at = K88 for $2.74/gal. That works out to 207 Knots Ground speed at 8.1 = gal/hr. Yee ha!=20 Of course, the winds play the deciding factor. I had a mix of = winds over the course of the trip here are the overall stats: 4224 kn miles traveled 240 gallons burned $3.35 average fuel price (I had to buy 100LL on 2 occasions which = brought up the average a little)=20 $24 worth of 2-stroke oil burned. ($830 total paid for fuel and = oil) 26.0 hrs on the hobbs That works out to: Average speed=3D 162 KTS Average Fuel Burn=3D 9.2 gal/hr Average cost/mile=3D $0.19 Those are GPS point to point numbers and include climb, taxi and = heading variations. The other way to look at fuel burn/Cruise speed is = to use a calibrated ASI and Fuel Flow insturment. I spent a couple = hundred miles testing various settings after getting the fuel flow = computer fully calibrated. Here are my data points taken in cruise, all = were done > 100 LOP (more power available with richer mixtures or = closure of the wastegate - not attempted this trip). Slight climbs or = descents and changes in mixture probably account for the variations. = (RV is hard to truly keep level especially when looking at other numbers = and trying to write) (Redline is 7000 RPM)=20 150 KTAS @ 13.5k and 8.0 gal/hr 154 KTAS @ 15.5k and 8.3 gal/hr (5100 RPM) 160 KTAS @ 11.5k and 9.1 gal/hr 161 KTAS @ 15.5k and 8.7 gal/hr 162 KTAS @ 13.5k and 9.2 gal/hr 165 KTAS @ 13.5k and 10 gal/hr (5600 RPM)=20 172 KTAS @ 15.5k and 10.7 gal/hr (5600 RPM) 179 KTAS @ 15.5k and 12.0 gal/hr (5900 RPM) 181 KTAS @ 15.5k and 11.8 gal/hr 183 KTAS @ 13.5k and 12.3 gal/hr 185 KTAS @ 17.5k and 13.5 gal/hr (6000 RPM) - WOT=20 189 KTAS @ 17.5k and 13.4 gal/hr (6000 RPM) - WOT 193 KTAS @ 13.5k and 13.6 gal/hr (6100 RPM) - WOT Clearly not the same fuel economy as most lycoming installations, = but not out of the ballpark either. After considering the lower price = of MOGAS the hourly cost of flying is=20 No issues encountered with the engine. Tracy noted that my gear = leash seemed to be slightly larger than normal, and it increased during = the trip home. So next weekend the drive is coming off for inspection = and likely replacement of the snubbers.=20 --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net=20 --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C81B3D.7BE52930 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dave, glad you made it.  Yes, really = made it a=20 gloomy week on my end thinking about all the fun all you folks were = having while=20 I kept pulling the curtains back looking at the ceiling = {:>)
 
Thanks for the data,  I'll look into the = fuel=20 calibration procedure again.  I would normally expect it to settle = down by=20 now.  Tell me once again the flow rate of your primary and = secondary=20 injectors, then I'll go back and look to see if I perhaps screwed up the = calculation.  I would normally expect to see the error being less = than 0.5=20 gallons out of a 37 gallon tank of fuel.  Naturally, the process = depends on=20 accuracy in measuring input, but most tank pumps are pretty good.  = More=20 importantly, I would expect it to stabilize, so need to look into=20 it.
 
It looks like an average of about 2.35 gallons = per fill-up=20 ranging from an error of 3.8 gallons to 0.8 gallons and I know we can do = better=20 than that.
 
 
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 David=20 Leonard
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 = 9:04=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Rotary = Cross=20 Country Report

Ed,

Really Sorry you couldn't make it as = well. =20 Sure would have been nice to finally meet you.  I don't think I = have to=20 tell you how much fun you missed.

The fuel monitor worked = really well=20 and I was happy to show it off to anyone interested, including Tracy.=20

I'm still having the occasional problem with freeze-up, with 9 = of them=20 recorded on my trip.  Calibration also seems to be going slower = than=20 expected.  I must have done 5 or 6 of them before I left for the = trip,=20 but it still never seems to change.  Here are the actual and = predicted=20 fuel usages for my trip.  I did a calibration with each fill-up:=20

Actual   = Predicted
23.2     =20 24.2
25.2     =20 29.0
22.7     =20 23.6
26.2     =20 31.3
24.2     =20 26.7
25.3     =20 26.5
26.0     =20 29.5
25.7      26.5

At least it = always=20 errors on the conservative side and is usually not off by much.  = Maybe I=20 am not doing the calibrations correctly, but I am pretty sure I am = following=20 your instructions.  Any suggestions?

All in all, I cant = believe I=20 ever flew without it.  Sure makes fuel calculations much=20 easier.

Recommendations now that I have some more x-country = experience=20 with it: put the mixture bar on all 4 of the main operation = screens.  I=20 mostly prefer to fly with the fuel flow/fuel remaining screen, but = would like=20 to see the mixture bar there as well (though it does not matter much, = because=20 I am usually off the scale to the lean side anyway).

Hope to = see you=20 at next year's round-up!

Dave


On Oct 30, 2007 9:17 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;=20 wrote:
Yee Hah! is right, Dave.  Some very = nice=20 numbers.  Nice to still have that power available at the higher = altitudes with that turbocharger.  My 15.5 MSL days are behind = me, once=20 I get to about 12000, the old body wants its own turbocharger=20 {:>).
 
By the way, sorry I did not make it down to = meet=20 you.Wanted to hear your session on turbocharging.    I = also had=20 another backboard which increases the EFISM display intensity which = I was=20 going to bring with me.  Since it plugs into the back of the = front=20 panel, you would probably have no problem just unplugging the = current back=20 board and plugging in the brighter one OR you can ship it back and I = can do=20 it.
 
Next time
 
Ed
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 David Leonard
To:=20 Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Sent:=20 Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Rotary Cross Country Report

I just finished a most excellent cross country in = my Rotary=20 RV-6 and wanted to share the stats and the adventure.  I = visited=20 family in Boulder, CO, friends in Pensacola, and spent a week in = Orlando=20 including watching the shuttle launch and going to the rotary = round up in=20 Bell, Fl.  I also delivered a prop to its buyer in Austin TX = and=20 traversed the country westbound in a single day.

Best leg = (Strong=20 tailwinds fading in the end):  K88-82J,  601 NM and 2.9 = hrs on=20 the hobbs.  23.6 gallons of MOGAS burned that I bought at K88 = for=20 $2.74/gal.  That works out to 207 Knots Ground speed at 8.1=20 gal/hr.  Yee ha!

Of course, the winds play the = deciding=20 factor.  I had a mix of winds over the course of the trip = here are=20 the overall stats:
4224 kn miles traveled
240 gallons=20 burned
$3.35 average fuel price (I had to buy 100LL on 2 = occasions=20 which brought up the average a little)
$24 worth of 2-stroke = oil=20 burned. ($830 total paid for fuel and oil)
26.0 hrs on the=20 hobbs
That works out to:
Average speed=3D 162 KTS
Average = Fuel=20 Burn=3D 9.2 gal/hr
Average cost/mile=3D $0.19

Those are = GPS point to=20 point  numbers and include climb, taxi and heading = variations. =20 The other way to look at fuel burn/Cruise speed is to use a = calibrated ASI=20 and Fuel Flow insturment.  I spent a couple hundred miles = testing=20 various settings after getting the fuel flow computer fully=20 calibrated.  Here are my data points taken in cruise, all = were done=20 > 100 LOP (more power available with richer mixtures or closure = of the=20 wastegate - not attempted this trip).  Slight climbs or = descents and=20 changes in mixture probably account for the variations.  (RV = is hard=20 to truly keep level especially when looking at other numbers and = trying to=20 write) (Redline is 7000 RPM)

150 KTAS @ 13.5k and 8.0=20 gal/hr
154 KTAS @ 15.5k and 8.3 gal/hr (5100 RPM)
160 KTAS @ = 11.5k=20 and 9.1 gal/hr
161 KTAS @ 15.5k and 8.7 gal/hr
162 KTAS @ = 13.5k and=20 9.2 gal/hr
165 KTAS @ 13.5k and 10 gal/hr (5600 RPM)
172 = KTAS @=20 15.5k and 10.7 gal/hr (5600 RPM)
179 KTAS @ 15.5k and 12.0 = gal/hr (5900=20 RPM)
181 KTAS @ 15.5k and 11.8 gal/hr
183 KTAS @ 13.5k and = 12.3=20 gal/hr
185 KTAS @ 17.5k and 13.5 gal/hr (6000 RPM)  - WOT =
189=20 KTAS @ 17.5k and 13.4 gal/hr (6000 RPM)  - WOT
193 KTAS @ = 13.5k=20 and 13.6 gal/hr (6100 RPM)  - WOT

Clearly not the same = fuel=20 economy as most lycoming installations, but not out of the = ballpark=20 either.  After considering the lower price of MOGAS the = hourly cost=20 of flying is

No issues encountered with the engine.  = Tracy=20 noted that my gear leash seemed to be slightly larger than normal, = and it=20 increased during the trip home.  So next weekend the drive is = coming=20 off for inspection and likely replacement of the snubbers. =


--=20
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net=20


--=20
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003B_01C81B3D.7BE52930--