X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from rwcrmhc15.comcast.net ([216.148.227.155] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2402067 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:12:33 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=216.148.227.155; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from wschertzpc (c-24-14-180-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net[24.14.180.216]) by comcast.net (rwcrmhc15) with SMTP id <20071023131133m15009uqt0e>; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:11:43 +0000 Message-ID: <71587C0329044899900FA8367FFB93AF@WschertzPC> From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Cooling Update - Lancair ES/20B Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:11:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01C8154C.5341D420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C8154C.5341D420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, Interesting data, to help me understand it better \: 1. Oil flow from engine to oil/water cooler to oil/air cooler to engine? = where is the temperature measured? 2. Where is water temp measured? 3. What was water temp under similar conditions prior to the change? Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 8:00 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling Update - Lancair ES/20B OK, I was going to wait to discuss this at the fly-in, but I was = chastized for keeping this to myself, so here goes.=20 My 3-rotor Lancair ES has had excessive oil temps of 225 - 235*F (in = climb) since first flight. Opening the cowl exit area helped enough to = get me in the air for more than a lap around the pattern, but I was = climb-limited to about 500fpm. I was anticipating better performance = once the Texas summer heat subsided, but that just didn't happen this = year (temps in the high 80's just last weekend). So, I decided to try = an oil/water heat exchanger. I found a NASCAR Fluidyne unit on ebay and = managed to "win" the bid. It required that I do major surgery to the = cooling system, including relocating some items on the firewall to make = room for the new heat exchanger. I finished it up Sunday afternoon and = did a couple of ground runs and things looked promising (it didn't = leak). So, I decided to go for a short test flight. =20 I set the M/T constant speed prop to 2300 rpm, which will give me = takeoff rpm in the mid to upper 6K range. OAT was about 88*F. I = accelerated and where I would normally have to throttle back to keep = temps under 230*F, the temps were in the 180* range. So, I kept the = power on, climbing like I have never climbed before (1400 fpm). This is = a 4-place, 2100# empty airplane. I kept it WOT until I reached 2000 msl = (1500agl) and then noticed that I forgot to retract the 10* flaps used = for takeoff. So, I cruised around at 2500 - 3000 msl and water temp was = 170 - 177*F, oil temps were 160 - 165*F. Before this mod, my oil temps = would normally be approx. 185 - 190*F in cruise. Needless to say, I was = very happy. =20 The difference in my oil/water arrangement is that I tapped the water = pump with a 1/2" line just before it enters the front side housing and I = use this "cool" water to supply the water to the oil/water exchanger. I = return the heated water to the engine discharge leading to the radiator. = I felt this would still provide sufficient coolant flow through the = engine as some guys are running the smaller 13B pump on their 3-rotor = engines without a problem. The 20B water pump impeller is 1/4" larger = diameter. From my initial flight, it seems that there is plenty of = coolant flow to keep the engine cool.=20 It is really too early to tell for certain, but things look very = promising. I will try and take some pictures to bring with me to the = Rotary Fly-In. =20 Finally, to give credit where credit is due, I am told that Leon (from = down under) has been using this design for years with great success. I = thank Leon for sharing his racer tricks with the group. =20 Mark S. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C8154C.5341D420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mark,
Interesting data, to help me understand = it better=20 \:
 
1. Oil flow from engine to oil/water = cooler to=20 oil/air cooler to engine? where is the temperature = measured?
2. Where is water temp = measured?
3. What was water temp under similar = conditions=20 prior to the change?
 
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark = Steitle=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 = 8:00=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Cooling = Update -=20 Lancair ES/20B

OK, I was going to wait to discuss this at the fly-in, = but I=20 was chastized for keeping this to myself, so here goes.

My = 3-rotor=20 Lancair ES has had excessive oil temps of 225 - 235*F (in climb) since = first=20 flight.  Opening the cowl exit area helped enough to get me in = the air=20 for more than a lap around the pattern, but I was climb-limited to = about=20 500fpm.  I was anticipating better performance once the Texas = summer heat=20 subsided, but that just didn't happen this year (temps in the high = 80's just=20 last weekend).  So, I decided to try an oil/water heat = exchanger.  I=20 found a NASCAR Fluidyne unit on ebay and managed to "win" the = bid.  It=20 required that I do major surgery to the cooling system, including = relocating=20 some items on the firewall to make room for the new heat = exchanger.  I=20 finished it up Sunday afternoon and did a couple of ground runs and = things=20 looked promising (it didn't leak).  So, I decided to go for a = short test=20 flight. 

I set the  M/T constant speed prop to 2300 = rpm,=20 which will give me takeoff rpm in the mid to upper 6K range.  OAT = was=20 about 88*F.  I accelerated and where I would normally have to = throttle=20 back to keep temps under 230*F, the temps were in the 180* = range.  So, I=20 kept the power on, climbing like I have never climbed before (1400 = fpm). =20 This is a 4-place, 2100# empty airplane.  I kept it WOT until I = reached=20 2000 msl (1500agl) and then noticed that I forgot to retract the 10* = flaps=20 used for takeoff. So, I cruised around at 2500 - 3000 msl and water = temp was=20 170 - 177*F, oil temps were 160 - 165*F.  Before this mod, my oil = temps=20 would normally be approx. 185 - 190*F in cruise.  Needless to = say, I was=20 very happy. 

The difference in my oil/water arrangement = is that I=20 tapped the water pump with a 1/2" line just before it enters the front = side=20 housing and I use this "cool" water to supply the water to the = oil/water=20 exchanger.  I return the heated water to the engine discharge = leading to=20 the radiator.  I felt this would still provide sufficient coolant = flow=20 through the engine as some guys are running the smaller 13B pump on = their=20 3-rotor engines without a problem.  The 20B water pump impeller = is 1/4"=20 larger diameter.  From my initial flight, it seems that = there is=20 plenty of coolant flow to keep the engine cool.

It is really = too early=20 to tell for certain, but things look very promising.  I will try = and take=20 some pictures to bring with me to the Rotary Fly-In.  =

Finally, to=20 give credit where credit is due, I am told that Leon (from down under) = has=20 been using this design for years with great success.  I thank = Leon for=20 sharing his racer tricks with the group. 

Mark S.=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C8154C.5341D420--