X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2366454 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:27:06 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.233.166.180; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id a25so9367335pyi for ; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:26:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=r23tPwM8IGFAGNOOHx7Gl/z8s4vfGwnBBNjG5ntlndg=; b=jtosZ+euTQm8AEdT/IHDhHsurnbu7iEvPxyRN+4N8hp95DFCvlvQSVkRIiyFrAsq5oQh1wmplSTreXEZNaGmloCaa8HR98dxww+vZjW/xorxKrcOY1CiC22aXAgd/HzR2PqX5zy0Lxvr59b1PDwTukYO2IbIIXlSVD0srkTua8g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=fhbytSZvKcxRFyEW5rLzyDH6STFBZY2l/CBpQAUGgnd54tQI6DUrUL/1k1YqukXUGpSwqNIdP8hLFYGqDnM0qUx/Ep+fMdeRt/Y3rLQIE9pum+g+NiUlQx2GWx6a7FiYeCuDDHMILs3CXXllQrDfPj/AExYQMzuDKkPLTOOTeFc= Received: by 10.65.240.17 with SMTP id s17mr12254814qbr.1191428787312; Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.90.35.16 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Oct 2007 09:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5cf132c0710030926l2d8baf72i92fde9641278a647@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:26:27 -0500 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Coolant Water Pressure In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_22257_21219763.1191428787282" References: ------=_Part_22257_21219763.1191428787282 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Bill, Silly question, but have you calibrated your pressure sensor? Mark S. On 10/3/07, Bill Bradburry wrote: > > I think that I would see air under the radiator cap if I had a > compression gas leak? I never see any air. > > To check a piston engine for head gasket leaks, you would put the cylinde= r > at TDC and pressurize the cylinder to about 150 lbs with compressed air a= nd > check the radiator for air bubbles=85How do you check a rotary? > > I will check the pressure sender against a mechanical gage. > > There is obviously a heating problem, but I think the pressure is higher > than it should be until just ready to boil. I shut the engine off at 210= *, > and at 22+ lbs, the boiling point should be well above 250*?? > > > > Thanks for the suggestions of where to look, guys=85 > > > > Bill B > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *O= n > Behalf Of *Al p Wick > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:49 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Coolant Water Pressure > > > > Your coolant reservoir should be above engine. > > > > 1) If it is, remove two cups of air from the reservoir. Then repeat your > test. > > 2) If you now see pressure rise above 22 psi within 5 minutes of cold > start, you clearly have compression gases leaking into cooling system or = bad > gage. > > > > 3) Air in the block is 10 times more significant than any other cooling > factor. Make darn sure you don't have any. It causes local boiling, high > temps, strange behavior. > > > > Operating with two cups of air under cap is an important safety and > diagnosis advantage. Everyone should do it. With that two cups, you only = see > 22 psi if you have a genuine problem. You only see 0 psi if you have genu= ine > problem. The pressure is then a very fast and reliable indicator of syste= m > integrity. So two cups of air has no negative effect on system efficiency= , > just a substantial improvement in safety. Only time it could be a negativ= e > would be if your reservoir was way too small, way too low, or flowed way = too > much coolant. > > > > Since you describe high temps AND pressure, I suspect you have temperatur= e > problem. > > > > I deliberately overheated my engine many times so that I was intimate wit= h > pressure and temperature patterns. Then tested various concepts. Don't > recommend you do the same. > > > > -al wick > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:38:55 -0400 "Bill Bradburry" < > bbradburry@bellsouth.net> writes: > > I just recently got my Renesis started again after finishing my cowl. I > seem to be getting very high coolant pressures. I can only run the engin= e > about 10-15 minutes before hitting the redline at 210*. My water pressur= e > is at 27 Lbs at that time. I only have a 22 Lb radiator cap, so I assume > that I am blowing into the recovery tank, but I have not confirmed that. = My > oil temp has never exceeded about 165*. It might have gone higher if I > could have run longer??? > > > > This whole water pressure thing has me a little baffled. Since this is a > closed system and the only way pressure can build is due to the expansion= of > the coolant after heating???, I am confused by some comments that have be= en > made from time to time. I remember something that Tracy said about his > pressure would build for a time, then go to zero. It seems to me that th= e > pressure should correlate to the temp pretty closely since it is a closed > system?? > > > > Can someone enlighten me a little on the science of this pressure? It > seems to me that there could be some pressure build up on the positive si= de > of the pump, but it would go negative on the suction side, so the net eff= ect > of the pump should be close to zero?? > > > > Also, my Renesis had only 1800 miles on it when I bought it, so I did not > have to tear it down. As a result, I am somewhat in the dark as to how t= he > water flows through the system. Could someone help me with that? I had = to > remove the thermostat tower for height clearance , so I made an adapter > plate that takes water from the top outlet of the pump and sends it to th= e > radiator (double pass), then from the radiator, it returns to the lower > inlet of the pump. > > > > Thanks, > > Bill B > > > > > -al wick > Cozy IV powered by Turbo Subaru 3.0R with variable valve lift and cam > timing. > Artificial intelligence in cockpit, N9032U 240+ hours from Portland, > Oregon > Glass panel design, Subaru install, Prop construct, Risk assessment info: > http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html > ------=_Part_22257_21219763.1191428787282 Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Bill,
 
Silly question, but have you calibrated your pressure sensor? 
 
Mark S.

 
On 10/3/07, = Bill Bradburry <bbradbur= ry@bellsouth.net> wrote:

I think that I would see air under = the radiator cap if I had a compression gas leak?  I never see any air= .

To check a piston engine for head g= asket leaks, you would put the cylinder at TDC and pressurize the cylinder = to about 150 lbs with compressed air and check the radiator for air bubbles= =85How do you check a rotary?

I will check the pressure sender ag= ainst a mechanical gage. 

There is obviously a heating proble= m, but I think the pressure is higher than it should be until just ready to= boil.  I shut the engine off at 210*, and at 22+ lbs, the boiling poi= nt should be well above 250*??

 

Thanks for the suggestions of where= to look, guys=85

 

Bill B

 

bbradburry@bellsouth.net> writes:

I just recently got my Renesis started again after finishing my= cowl.  I seem to be getting very high coolant pressures.  I can = only run the engine about 10-15 minutes before hitting the redline at 210*.=   My water pressure is at 27 Lbs at that time.  I only have a 22 = Lb radiator cap, so I assume that I am blowing into the recovery tank, but = I have not confirmed that.  My oil temp has never exceeded about 165*.=   It might have gone higher if I could have run longer???

 

This whole water pressure thing has me a little baffled.  = Since this is a closed system and the only way pressure can build is due to= the expansion of the coolant after heating???, I am confused by some comme= nts that have been made from time to time.  I remember something that = Tracy said about his pressure would build for a time, then go to zero. = ; It seems to me that the pressure should correlate to the temp pretty clos= ely since it is a closed system??=20

 

Can someone enlighten me a little on the science of this pressu= re?  It seems to me that there could be some pressure build up on the = positive side of the pump, but it would go negative on the suction side, so= the net effect of the pump should be close to zero??

 

Also, my Renesis had only 1800 miles on it when I bought it, so= I did not have to tear it down.  As a result, I am somewhat in the da= rk as to how the water flows through the system.  Could someone help m= e with that?  I had to remove the thermostat tower for height clearanc= e , so I made an adapter plate that takes water from the top outlet of the = pump and sends it to the radiator (double pass), then from the radiator, it= returns to the lower inlet of the pump.

 

Thanks,

Bill B

http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html


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