X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.12) with ESMTP id 2316370 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:07:34 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 ([24.74.103.61]) by cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com with SMTP id <20070907010656.KNVR3971.cdptpa-omta03.mail.rr.com@edward2> for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2007 01:06:56 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c7f0eb$75493020$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Idel issues Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 21:07:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001C_01C7F0C9.EDF99CC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C7F0C9.EDF99CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, Bill, having had more than one air cleaner cover leave an old flat = head V8 I used to torture, I learned that too lean can actually be = dangerous to the mechanic {:>). On the other hand, too rich generally = just blew the muffler off. I have often wondered about the time I lost the number 1 rotor at 7500 = MSL headed to Sun & Fun. I found that if I cranked up the mixture knob = to full rich, the fuel flow showed 14.5 GPH and the remaining rotor = could keep my heavily loaded RV-6A level at 6500 MSL. But, I could just = imagine the tail pipe on the failed rotor with all that gas pouring = through it probably looked like a miniature jet in after burner - shock = diamonds and all {:>). On second thought, perhaps its just as well I = didn't know. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wrjjrs@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 7:57 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Idel issues Ed, your analysis is just fine BTW. In cars and bikes we usually said = if the engine coughs or backfires in the carburetors its too lean, = timing can effect this as well. If the engine backfires out the exhaust = it is usually too rich. On rotary powered cars this can also result in = about a 4' flame out the tailpipe!=20 Bill Jepson PS. you can always tell who is following you too close into the = corners by the scorched paint on the grill!=20 -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 2:51 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Idel issues Ah, a totally different problem. Does it sound like the engine is = running too rich below 2000 or too lean. Too rich generally has sort of = a sloppy sound to the exhaust, too lean has more of a bark - not very = scientific, but based on experience.=20 One, of the first thing I would check is your ignition timing. If too = advanced that might prevent it from idling readily at lower rpms.=20 Be aware that on some year models the timing pulley is indexed = differently that throws off timing by 10-20 deg - no, sorry, I don't = recall which years.=20 =20 Ed=20 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shane Daly" = =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:35 PM=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Idel issues=20 =20 > its not that its idling high it is that it will not stay idling = below > 2000rpm I have to hold the throttle open or it will stall. It = does run > smooth from 2- 6000 rpm=20 >=20 > Kevin=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ed Anderson" = =20 > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:28 AM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Idel issues=20 >=20 >=20 >>I second Bob's suggestion.=20 >>=20 >> It does not take much of a leak to have the rotary idle at 2000 = rpm. >> There are a number of areas in the Rx-7 that air could find its = way into >> the induction system. Exchanging engine with all the air = lines ranging >> from the air bleeds to the injectors and oil injectors = to hoses hooked to >> the intake manifold and all the vacuum = lines/valves make it highly likely >> that something has been left off = or perhaps now has a crack in it.=20 >>=20 >> I seriously doubt that the O2 sensor would affect idle rpm that = much. >> Although the absence of an O2 sensor may have the EFI computer = confused >> and adding more fuel, but it would still take more air = through the >> induction system to use that fuel and have it idle = faster.=20 >>=20 >> Ed=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Bob White" = =20 >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" =20 >> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:33 PM=20 >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Idel issues=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> Hi Kevin,=20 >>>=20 >>> Are you using EFI? My first thought would be to look for air leaks = in=20 >>> the intake system.=20 >>>=20 >>> Bob W.=20 >>>=20 >>> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 10:04:23 -0600=20 >>> "Shane Daly" wrote:=20 >>>=20 >>>> I just swaped my block out its a 13b non turbo . last block ran = fine >>>> idled fine.but for some reason this one will not idle below 2 = thousand >>>> rpm.any suggestions on what i missed or direction to go = in?=20 >>>> kevin=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com=20 >>> 3.8 Hours Total Time and holding=20 >>> Cables for your rotary installation - = http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/=20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 >> Archive and UnSub: >> = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message.=20 >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: >> = 269.13.7/992 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 8:36 AM=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: > = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 > =20 --=20 Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01C7F0C9.EDF99CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, Bill,  having had more than one air = cleaner=20 cover leave an old flat head V8 I used to torture, I learned that too = lean can=20 actually be dangerous to the  mechanic {:>).  On the other = hand,=20 too rich generally just blew the muffler off.
 
I have often wondered about the time I lost the = number 1=20 rotor at 7500 MSL headed to Sun & Fun.  I found that if I = cranked up=20 the mixture knob to full rich, the fuel flow showed 14.5 GPH and the = remaining=20 rotor could keep my heavily loaded RV-6A level at 6500 MSL.  But, I = could=20 just imagine the tail pipe on the failed rotor with all that gas pouring = through=20 it probably looked like a miniature jet in after burner - shock diamonds = and all=20 {:>).  On second thought, perhaps its just as well I didn't=20 know.
 
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 06, = 2007 7:57=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Idel=20 issues

Ed, your analysis is just fine BTW. In cars and bikes we usually = said if=20 the engine coughs or backfires in the carburetors its too lean, timing = can=20 effect this as well. If the engine backfires out the exhaust it is = usually too=20 rich. On rotary powered cars this can also result in about a = 4'=20 flame out the tailpipe!
Bill Jepson
PS. you can always tell who is following you too close into the = corners=20 by the scorched paint on the grill! 


-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: = Thu, 6=20 Sep 2007 2:51 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Idel issues

Ah,=20 a totally different problem. Does it sound like the engine is running = too rich=20 below 2000 or too lean. Too rich generally has sort of a sloppy sound = to the=20 exhaust, too lean has more of a bark - not very scientific, but based = on=20 experience. 
One, of the first thing I would check is your = ignition=20 timing. If too advanced that might prevent it from idling readily at = lower=20 rpms. 
Be aware that on some year models the timing pulley is = indexed=20 differently that throws off timing by 10-20 deg - no, sorry, I don't = recall=20 which years. 
 
Ed 
----- Original Message = ----- From:=20 "Shane Daly" <shane@innovativewings.com&g= t; 
To:=20 "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> 
Sent:=20 Thursday, September 06, 2007 5:35 PM 
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Idel=20 issues 
 
> its not that its idling high it is that = it will=20 not stay idling below > 2000rpm I have to hold the throttle open or = it will=20 stall. It does run > smooth from 2- 6000 = rpm 
> 
>=20 Kevin 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- > = From: "Ed=20 Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t; 
>=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> 
>=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 11:28 AM 
> Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Idel issues 
> 
> 
>>I second = Bob's=20 suggestion. 
>> 
>> It does not take much = of a=20 leak to have the rotary idle at 2000 rpm. >> There are a number = of areas=20 in the Rx-7 that air could find its way into >> the induction = system.=20 Exchanging engine with all the air lines ranging >> from the air = bleeds=20 to the injectors and oil injectors to hoses hooked to >> the = intake=20 manifold and all the vacuum lines/valves make it highly likely = >> that=20 something has been left off or perhaps now has a crack in=20 it. 
>> 
>> I seriously doubt that the O2 = sensor=20 would affect idle rpm that much. >> Although the absence of an = O2 sensor=20 may have the EFI computer confused >> and adding more fuel, but = it would=20 still take more air through the >> induction system to use that = fuel and=20 have it idle faster. 
>> 
>>=20 Ed 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- = Original=20 Message ----- >> From: "Bob White" <rlwhite@comcast.net> 
= >>=20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> 
>>=20 Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 12:33 PM 
>> Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Idel=20 issues 
>> 
>> 
>>> Hi=20 Kevin, 
>>> 
>>> Are you using EFI? = My first=20 thought would be to look for air leaks in 
>>> the = intake=20 system. 
>>> 
>>> Bob=20 W. 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 6 Sep 2007 = 10:04:23=20 -0600 
>>> "Shane Daly" <shane@innovativewings.com&g= t;=20 wrote: 
>>> 
>>>> I just swaped = my block=20 out its a 13b non turbo . last block ran fine >>>> idled = fine.but=20 for some reason this one will not idle below 2 thousand = >>>>=20 rpm.any suggestions on what i missed or direction to go=20 in? 
>>>>=20 = kevin 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> = --=20 >>> N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com 
>>> 3.8 = Hours=20 Total Time and holding 
>>> Cables for your rotary=20 installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ 
>>>= ; 
>>>=20 -- 
>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ 
>>> = Archive and=20 UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
= >>=20 -- 
>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ 
>> = Archive and=20 UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>= >=20 -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. 
>> = Checked=20 by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: >> = 269.13.7/992=20 - Release Date: 9/6/2007 8:36=20 = AM 
>> 
>> 
> 
> <= BR>>=20 -- 
> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ 
> Archive = and UnSub:=20 > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l 
>=20  
-- 
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ 
Archive and = UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l 
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