X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com ([69.147.64.97] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with SMTP id 2187128 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:39:40 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.147.64.97; envelope-from=dcarter11@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 33479 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2007 13:39:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=mCtDte8Ii/TNBcQwuAEuvDT/87O/j/rq21gd7zH27SXJvHBiaMMYjCADDV08H98uQF6jv5D7ExUj75tewgo5xMslXrAJxlyQCHwfh9UIWEh4jfp5Pp8knK2fqmVXNyZPK/Qa2OOVLw+mwpDIXNmwHqAZ/kqdVfDUszDBUzlDG3I= ; Received: from unknown (HELO davidsdell8200) (dcarter11@sbcglobal.net@68.88.124.173 with login) by smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jul 2007 13:39:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: WOW.TGMVM1l1kswXHl1URqSCNDGiZVZdKDWra6vsWYhcL2U.C0Djsw001JyE1FtAOBa3TGS5NPzcFM9nmGqA1729eUv09cvIjvQcmyvXZ2yWP4wCvQ-- Message-ID: <021701c7ca0a$2a145dd0$6401a8c0@davidsdell8200> From: "David Carter" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler inlet Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:38:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0214_01C7C9E0.407F99B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0214_01C7C9E0.407F99B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Turning air" reminds me of the VERY effective leading edge slats on the = F-100 (and any other airplane with leading edge slats or slots). Really = helps keep the air attached to the wing until a higher angle of attack. . . . Sounds like you are on the right track. David Carter ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Brooks=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 7:34 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler inlet Gentlemen, I've been following this thread with great interest, as I would still = like to make further improvements to my cooling. Since Ernest lives close by to me, I may see if he can look at my = radiators to get his thoughts on improvements. Steve Brooks -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:17 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil cooler inlet I agree with Ernest (even if he clearly must be completely and = totally wrong {:>)), difficult to find any rule of thumb parameters for = a vane.=20 I have marked the region (red color) in you duct that I think is = most critical in helping the slower moving boundary layer turn and to = prevent/minimize its effect on the rest of the air flow. Once you have = helped the boundary layer accelerate and get around the curve, then I = believe the vane has done about all it can. I would start out the vane = approx 1/2 the depth of your opening in order to try and capture some of = the higher velocity air outside the boundary layer. I would then = compress that air toward the roof of the duct by reducing the distance = between vane and top of duct in order to increase its velocity. =20 Depending on how fancy you want to make the vane, I though that = perhaps adding slots so the higher velocity air in the lower part of the = duct could help the boundary flow make the turn and further energize it. = Don't have a clue as to how much this well help, but I do believe it = will help some. Ed=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil cooler inlet Attached is a more accurate drawing of the oil cooler inlet = x-section; with a few pressure measurements. Based on temps, the = average flow velocity into the scoop is about 85 fps (57 mph) - all at = about 160 mph airplane speed. (Point "A" is really about 4-5" ahead of = the scoop.) Ernest; since you were first to propose the internal airflow, or = vane; what would you think is the appropriate shape, position, etc. I = can understand your non-participation on the 'other' list after being = labeled "completely and totally wrong". (That's what you get for not = reading his bookJ). Others ideas obliviously of interest as well - ED? Al -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0214_01C7C9E0.407F99B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
"Turning air" reminds me of the VERY = effective=20 leading edge slats on the F-100 (and any other airplane with leading = edge slats=20 or slots).  Really helps keep the air attached to the wing until a = higher=20 angle of attack.
. . . Sounds like you are on the right=20 track.
 
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve=20 Brooks
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 = 7:34=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil = cooler=20 inlet

Gentlemen,
I've=20 been following this thread with great interest, as I would still like = to make=20 further improvements to my cooling.
Since Ernest lives close by to me, I may see if he can look = at my=20 radiators to get his thoughts on improvements.
 
Steve Brooks
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:17 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil = cooler=20 inlet

I agree with Ernest (even if he clearly must = be=20 completely and totally wrong {:>)), difficult to find any rule of = thumb=20 parameters for a vane. 
 
 I have marked the region (red color) =  in=20 you duct that I think is most critical in helping the slower moving = boundary=20 layer turn and to prevent/minimize its effect on the rest of the air = flow.  Once you have helped the boundary layer accelerate and = get=20 around the curve, then I believe the vane has done about all it = can.  I=20 would start out the vane approx 1/2 the depth of your opening in = order to=20 try and capture some of the higher velocity air outside the boundary = layer.=20 I would then compress that air toward the roof of the duct by = reducing the=20 distance between vane and top of duct in order to increase its=20 velocity. 
 
Depending on how fancy you want to make the = vane, I=20 though that perhaps adding slots so the higher velocity air in the = lower=20 part of the duct could help the boundary flow make the turn and = further=20 energize it.
 
Don't have a clue as to how much this well = help, but I=20 do believe it will help some.
 
Ed 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Al=20 Gietzen
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, = 2007 2:15=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil = cooler=20 inlet

Attached is a more = accurate=20 drawing of the oil cooler inlet x-section; with a few pressure=20 measurements.  Based on temps, the average flow velocity into the = scoop is=20 about 85 fps (57 mph) =96 all at about 160 mph airplane speed. = (Point =93A=94 is=20 really about 4-5=94 ahead of the scoop.)

 

Ernest; since you = were first=20 to propose the internal airflow, or vane; what would you think is = the=20 appropriate shape, position, etc.  I can understand your=20 non-participation on the =91other=92 list after being labeled = =93completely and=20 totally wrong=94. (That=92s what you get for not reading his=20 bookJ).

 

Others ideas = obliviously of=20 interest as well =96 ED?

 

Al

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