X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.240] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with ESMTP id 2140913 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:22:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.132.240; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b2so353496ana for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=JnzIV78gUvYkFeEHgUGO0YJQInkHqT4O+Pkk+Knc8JcC+Ijyo9OqMsVo/PZ1Er+UDDawhJ0BtV5bzgtvtAweRjpn3s19fQcWPyhyfnGYyz0ymXYOzULxBqzUovcgt498U2dftkJp9jz8YPqm6HkHjneOuFg2FBKwS04szjJ9NCk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=VdzQOPlPFjDF+Tl6bs1dhNW+JNpX8vQ2807Pyhtg3VGOFtJbBSF7tOM7qm64eHAn7+5qoUYyLWFu0q0/JJ8NIoEgA705VrK/4Yzjph1isQAgw616knnMmlPUaeCiiRCGvxd/jzJpskgnEOoaM6lSPs8Cf5Ez/PHC2SlWi8bQOqc= Received: by 10.100.32.1 with SMTP id f1mr3746196anf.1182860514247; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.174.8 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 05:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5cf132c0706260521k164c5614t7612def231115df1@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:21:54 -0500 From: "Mark Steitle" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Chris' Engine Saga...... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_Part_21092_10484174.1182860514198" References: ------=_Part_21092_10484174.1182860514198 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21091_17747119.1182860514198" ------=_Part_21091_17747119.1182860514198 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Chris, Do you have fuel pressure? Can you tell if the fuel pump(s) are pumping fuel? If you ran them dry, and don't have the bleeder circuit in the fuel rail, then you may have an air lock downstream of the pumps. If that's the case, crack open a fitting downstream of the fuel pump(s) and run the pump(s) until they re-prime. You should only need to run the pump for a few seconds before it re-primes. This is why I installed a bleeder circuit on my system. This would be very bad if it happened while flying. The bleeder circuit does the same thing as cracking a fitting to let the trapped air escape. If you have fuel pressure (pumps primed), then I would check the fuses/cb's to the coils and injectors. Then I would pull a leading plug and look at it to see if it is wet (getting fuel). It may be flooded (not likely though). If you have upgraded your EC-2, you can run the injector and coil checks to see if they are working. Good luck, Mark S. On 6/25/07, Christopher Barber wrote: > > I got the EM working on Sunday after work. As I said, I ran out of time > in the hangar the other day, so when I was able to get back out there after > work yesterday, I was able to hook the dimmer knob to the EM. Turned it up > and I got a visual on the instrument. Whew. > > I am having VERY inconsistant readings for RPM. it will "bounce" from the > 3000 rpm range to 8000, then 6000 ish, then back down to 3000. Mostly in the > 3000 ish range, but still VERY eratic. Don't know what is causing this yet. > Maybe due to no load? (as was stated somewhere, I prefer to look for leaks > and finish running wires (now that basic wire run routing seem to be ok) > withOUT a prop turning next to my ear....and neck at 3000 rpm. Also, it > seems to start great one time and then not really want to start at all the > next time I try. Geeesh. > > Well to follow up, today was one of those good bad days....or bad good > days. I feel like I got stuff done, but in the end it was unsatisfying. > > When I first got to the hangar, I kinda went "what the hell" and decided > to start the engine. I pushed in all the C/B, all switches up (except for > the "A" ECU switch and the cold start switch), primary pump on, mixture knob > rich, hit the start button and immediate start. Loud as hell, but it was > running. Kewl. Only let it run for a very short time as I didn't want it to > get too hot to work on. The RPM' readings on the EM were still very eradic, > but other sensors that I have now connected (oil temp, oil pressure, water > temp, water pressure) at least were reading SOMETHING.....thats a start. > > I went about the day making things a bit more secure in the engine area > running a few more sensor wires a bit more properly, chasing down and > hopefully securing a couple of known leaks etc and, DAMN IT, before I knew > what happened, most of the day was gone and Jana was telling me it was > getting late and we needed to go home to eat (she had been watching TV > patiently.....uh, this time , on the big screen we have in the hangar ever > since she had arrived with our dogs after she got off work earlier in the > afternoon). "Oh, OK, let me finish up a couple of things (always) and then > let me start it again before we go........here baby put on these ear > gaurds". Yep, it started, did not run great, but it ran, then it seem to run > out of gas and stalled. Hmmm, I think I really ran out of gas (I only had a > few gallons in the sump tank). So, we put more gas in, but for the life of > me I could not get it to start again........seemed to want to start a couple > of times, but a few times it didn't seem as if it had ever started. Jana > left to go start dinner......I stayed for more of the same. Gee, another > hour past already, geeezsh, I gotta go, it is getting dark. > > Oh well, at least I get two days off a week, so back again in the morning > and see what I can do to get it running again and maybe, hopefully to > consistantly start. > > Thoughts and comments are welcome. > > All the best, > > Chris > > > ------=_Part_21091_17747119.1182860514198 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Chris,
Do you have fuel pressure?  Can you tell if the fuel pump(s) are pumping fuel?  If you ran them dry, and don't have the bleeder circuit in the fuel rail, then you may have an air lock downstream of the pumps.  If that's the case, crack open a fitting downstream of the fuel pump(s) and run the pump(s) until they re-prime.  You should only need to run the pump for a few seconds before it re-primes.  This is why I installed a bleeder circuit on my system.  This would be very bad if it happened while flying.  The bleeder circuit does the same thing as cracking a fitting to let the trapped air escape.
 
If you have fuel pressure (pumps primed), then I would check the fuses/cb's to the coils and injectors.  Then I would pull a leading plug and look at it to see if it is wet (getting fuel).  It may be flooded (not likely though).  If you have upgraded your EC-2, you can run the injector and coil checks to see if they are working.
 
Good luck,
 
Mark S.

 
On 6/25/07, Christopher Barber <CBarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
I got the EM working on Sunday after work. As I said, I ran out of time in the hangar the other day, so when I was able to get back out there after work yesterday, I was able to hook the dimmer knob to the EM. Turned it up and I got a visual on the instrument. Whew.

I am having VERY inconsistant readings for RPM. it will "bounce" from the 3000 rpm range to 8000, then 6000 ish, then back down to 3000. Mostly in the 3000 ish range, but still VERY eratic. Don't know what is causing this yet. Maybe due to no load? (as was stated somewhere, I prefer to look for leaks and finish running wires (now that basic wire run routing seem to be ok) withOUT a prop turning next to my ear....and neck at 3000 rpm. Also, it seems to start great one time and then not really want to start at all the next time I try. Geeesh.

Well to follow up, today was one of those good bad days....or bad good days. I feel like I got stuff done, but in the end it was unsatisfying.

When I first got to the hangar, I kinda went "what the hell" and decided to start the engine. I pushed in all the C/B, all switches up (except for the "A" ECU switch and the cold start switch), primary pump on, mixture knob rich, hit the start button and immediate start. Loud as hell, but it was running. Kewl. Only let it run for a very short time as I didn't want it to get too hot to work on. The RPM' readings on the EM were still very eradic, but other sensors that I have now connected (oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, water pressure) at least were reading SOMETHING.....thats a start.

I went about the day making things a bit more secure in the engine area running a few more sensor wires a bit more properly, chasing down and hopefully securing a couple of known leaks etc and, DAMN IT, before I knew what happened, most of the day was gone and Jana was telling me it was getting late and we needed to go home to eat (she had been watching TV patiently.....uh, this time , on the big screen we have in the hangar ever since she had arrived with our dogs after she got off work earlier in the afternoon). "Oh, OK, let me finish up a couple of things (always) and then let me start it again before we go........here baby put on these ear gaurds". Yep, it started, did not run great, but it ran, then it seem to run out of gas and stalled. Hmmm, I think I really ran out of gas (I only had a few gallons in the sump tank). So, we put more gas in, but for the life of me I could not get it to start again........seemed to want to start a couple of times, but a few times it didn't seem as if it had ever started . Jana left to go start dinner......I stayed for more of the same . Gee, another hour past already, geeezsh, I gotta go, it is getting dark .

Oh well, at least I get two days off a week, so back again in the morning and see what I can do to get it running again and maybe, hopefully to consistantly start. <sigh>

Thoughts and comments are welcome.

All the best,

Chris
 
<Cross posted at the Canard Aviation forum>

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