X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.101] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.10) with ESMTP id 2140827 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:10:33 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-02.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l5QC9o2q025448 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:09:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02f801c7b7ef$a1abdc10$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Chris' Engine Saga...... Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:43:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02F4_01C7B7CE.1A4B7FD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_02F4_01C7B7CE.1A4B7FD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_02F5_01C7B7CE.1A4B7FD0" ------=_NextPart_001_02F5_01C7B7CE.1A4B7FD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chris, without a load on the engine it is very difficult to diagnose = your problem or even know if you really have a problem. Without a prop = my engine would hit 5000 rpm at my idle setting. So in effect you are = probably still in the "idle" region - but, not knowing the manifold = pressure you are reading its difficult to say. I do know that without a prop load any tuning of the fuel map you do is = not only useless, but probably counter productive. You must have a load = to properly tune the EC2 fuel map. My concern is that without a load and you "playing" with the engine - = you already speak of hitting 8000 rpm - with no load that probably = doesn't hurt the engine - but just crack the throttle a bit more and = you could. If you don't have a prop and have a 2.17:1 gear box, I'll ship you my = old prop to test with - just don't want to see your efforts get spoiled = by a possible mishap on the throttle {:>) Best Regards Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Christopher Barber=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 12:53 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Chris' Engine Saga...... I got the EM working on Sunday after work. As I said, I ran out of = time in the hangar the other day, so when I was able to get back out = there after work yesterday, I was able to hook the dimmer knob to the = EM. Turned it up and I got a visual on the instrument. Whew.=20 I am having VERY inconsistant readings for RPM. it will "bounce" from = the 3000 rpm range to 8000, then 6000 ish, then back down to 3000. = Mostly in the 3000 ish range, but still VERY eratic. Don't know what is = causing this yet. Maybe due to no load? (as was stated somewhere, I = prefer to look for leaks and finish running wires (now that basic wire = run routing seem to be ok) withOUT a prop turning next to my ear....and = neck at 3000 rpm. Also, it seems to start great one time and then not = really want to start at all the next time I try. Geeesh. Well to follow up, today was one of those good bad days....or bad good = days. I feel like I got stuff done, but in the end it was unsatisfying. When I first got to the hangar, I kinda went "what the hell" and = decided to start the engine. I pushed in all the C/B, all switches up = (except for the "A" ECU switch and the cold start switch), primary pump = on, mixture knob rich, hit the start button and immediate start. Loud as = hell, but it was running. Kewl. Only let it run for a very short time as = I didn't want it to get too hot to work on. The RPM' readings on the EM = were still very eradic, but other sensors that I have now connected (oil = temp, oil pressure, water temp, water pressure) at least were reading = SOMETHING.....thats a start. I went about the day making things a bit more secure in the engine = area running a few more sensor wires a bit more properly, chasing down = and hopefully securing a couple of known leaks etc and, DAMN IT, before = I knew what happened, most of the day was gone and Jana was telling me = it was getting late and we needed to go home to eat (she had been = watching TV patiently.....uh, this time , on the big screen we have in = the hangar ever since she had arrived with our dogs after she got off = work earlier in the afternoon). "Oh, OK, let me finish up a couple of = things (always) and then let me start it again before we go........here = baby put on these ear gaurds". Yep, it started, did not run great, but = it ran, then it seem to run out of gas and stalled. Hmmm, I think I = really ran out of gas (I only had a few gallons in the sump tank). So, = we put more gas in, but for the life of me I could not get it to start = again........seemed to want to start a couple of times, but a few times = it didn't seem as if it had ever started. Jana left to go start = dinner......I stayed for more of the same. Gee, another hour past = already, geeezsh, I gotta go, it is getting dark. Oh well, at least I get two days off a week, so back again in the = morning and see what I can do to get it running again and maybe, = hopefully to consistantly start. Thoughts and comments are welcome. All the best, Chris ------=_NextPart_001_02F5_01C7B7CE.1A4B7FD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris, without a load on the engine it is very = difficult=20 to diagnose your problem or even know if you really have a = problem. =20 Without a prop my engine would hit 5000 rpm at my idle setting.  So = in=20 effect you are probably still in the "idle" region - but, not knowing = the=20 manifold pressure you are reading its difficult to say.
 
I do know that without a prop load any tuning of = the fuel=20 map you do is not only useless, but probably counter productive.  = You must=20 have a load to properly tune the EC2 fuel map.
 
My concern is that without a load and you = "playing" with=20 the engine - you already speak of hitting 8000 rpm - with no load that = probably=20 doesn't hurt the engine - but  just crack the throttle a bit more = and you=20 could.
 
If you don't have a prop and have a 2.17:1 gear = box, I'll=20 ship you my old prop to test with - just don't want to see your efforts = get=20 spoiled by a possible mishap on the throttle {:>)
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Christopher Barber =
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 = 12:53=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Chris' = Engine=20 Saga......

I got the EM working on Sunday after = work. As I=20 said, I ran out of time in the hangar the other day, so when I was = able to get=20 back out there after work yesterday, I was able to hook the dimmer = knob to the=20 EM. Turned it up and I got a visual on the instrument. Whew.

I = am=20 having VERY inconsistant readings for RPM. it will "bounce" from the = 3000 rpm=20 range to 8000, then 6000 ish, then back down to 3000. Mostly in the = 3000 ish=20 range, but still VERY eratic. Don't know what is causing this yet. = Maybe due=20 to no load? (as was stated somewhere, I prefer to look for leaks and = finish=20 running wires (now that basic wire run routing seem to be ok) withOUT = a prop=20 turning next to my ear....and neck at 3000 rpm. Also, it seems to = start great=20 one time and then not really want to start at all the next time I try. = Geeesh.

Well to follow up, today was one of those good bad = days....or=20 bad good days. I feel like I got stuff done, but in the end it was=20 unsatisfying.

When I first got to the hangar, I kinda went = "what the=20 hell" and decided to start the engine. I pushed in all the C/B, all = switches=20 up (except for the "A" ECU switch and the cold start switch), primary = pump on,=20 mixture knob rich, hit the start button and immediate start. Loud as = hell, but=20 it was running. Kewl. Only let it run for a very short time as I = didn't want=20 it to get too hot to work on. The RPM' readings on the EM were still = very=20 eradic, but other sensors that I have now connected (oil temp, oil = pressure,=20 water temp, water pressure) at least were reading SOMETHING.....thats = a=20 start.

I went about the day making things a bit more secure in = the=20 engine area running a few more sensor wires a bit more properly, = chasing down=20 and hopefully securing a couple of known leaks etc and, DAMN IT, = before I=20 knew what happened, most of the day was gone and Jana was telling me = it was=20 getting late and we needed to go home to eat (she had been watching TV = patiently.....uh, this time 3D"", on the big screen we have in the hangar ever since she = had arrived=20 with our dogs after she got off work earlier in the afternoon). "Oh, = OK, let=20 me finish up a couple of things (always) and then let me start it=20 again before we go........here baby put on these ear gaurds". = Yep, it=20 started, did not run great, but it ran, then it seem to run out of gas = and=20 stalled. Hmmm, I think I really ran out of gas (I only had a few = gallons in=20 the sump tank). So, we put more gas in, but for the life of me I could = not get=20 it to start again........seemed to want to start a couple of times, = but a few=20 times it didn't seem as if it had ever started3D""=203D""=203D""=203D""=20. Jana left to go start dinner......I stayed for more of = the same3D""=203D""=203D""=20. Gee, another hour past already, geeezsh, I gotta go, it = is getting=20 dark3D""=203D""=20.

Oh well, at least I get two days off a = week, so=20 back again in the morning and see what I can do to get it running = again and=20 maybe, hopefully to consistantly start. <sigh>

Thoughts = and=20 comments are welcome.

All the best,

Chris
 
<Cross posted at the Canard = Aviation=20 forum>
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