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Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 21:20:42 -0600
From: Bob White <rlwhite@comcast.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Houston, we have a problem...
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Hi Dave,

I'm glad to hear you got the engine running again.  First let me say
that you are a lot braver than I am running the engine without a prop.
It's unbelievably easy to over rev the engine that way.  I don't think
you can tell much about tuning until you get a prop on it either.

I think you know you want that wiring to be rock solid.  Are you using
the PIDG type crimps?  I would bet you are since you are a Nuckolls fan.
They have a metal sleeve that crimps the insulated part of the wire.
Was there anything wrong with the crimp that caused it to fail?

One of my RD-1C drains had very little oil coming out of it.  I called
Tracy at the time and he said that was normal.  I don't remember
positively, but I think it was the same one. Sounds OK.

The water temp should be measured at the hottest location you can get
too.  Somewhere near the water exit from the block.  Oil temp is
measured after the cooler. 

Bob W.


On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 21:49:11 -0500
David Staten <Dastaten@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Chris got it running again today.. and he is 'getting the feel' for the 
> engine, and starting it.
> 
> This is still no-load, no instrumentation engine operation.. 
> Instrumentation is probably the next focus: EGT on the exhaust.. 
> calibrate oil temp and pressure probes, as well as obtaining fuel 
> pressure senders.
> 
> May take the radiator drain fitting out and use that as a temp sensing 
> point, or have the radiator tapped at its discharge point for that 
> purposes.
> 
> 
> Ok....
> What we know:
> 
> One of the secondaries had a poor connection and broken wire inside a 
> crimp. This caused an intermittent power condition within one of the 
> secondary fuel injectors.
> 
> This is the only repair made, and starting was possible after this. This 
> is a very concerning failure mode. I will await Tracy's return to see 
> what he thinks..
> 
> B runs smoother than A. The only diff is an intake air temp probe on A 
> and non-temp adjusted values on B.
> 
> The EC2, as programmed to defaults, is somewhat rich in the no-load 
> condition of our street ported (by us) engine. We are getting very good 
> results with manual leaning and estimated revs in the 3-4000 range with 
> a closed throttle, simply by using mixture to control the engine.
> 
> None of our runs have been substantial enough to cause the thermostat to 
> open on the coolant circuit. Engine makes hot oil and hot water, and 
> sends the hot oil through the oil cooling system.
> 
> Our RD1-B has oil circulation, and is warm to the touch from the hot oil 
> being circulated in it. There is minimal to no discernable drainage from 
> the aft oil drain hole on the RD1-B. We have good oil in, and good oil 
> out from the lower/forward drain hole, but none from the upper/aft one. 
> I have aluminum tubing and tube nuts on this run. I will make a short 
> "soft line" for this run, as well as for the oil feed (which is 
> currently a stainless "hard line" run from the stock oil pressure sensor 
> port to the redrive inlet port.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on the injector power being a possible point of 
> failure? Has anyone else had a single secondary injector (presumably 
> staged) unpowered before and had a problem?
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> Christopher Barber wrote:
> 
> > I plan to go back and read the list, espcially the stuff on Buly's 
> > recent issues, HOWEVER,
> >  
> > I went out to the airport after work today to show off my running 
> > engine to him.  I flipped the switches UP <g>, hit the start button 
> > and it started up.  It ran for a bit fine, but since I was afraid I 
> > may be running it too fast and don't want it to get too hot (if you 
> > remember we do not have any sensors or the monitor hooked up yet, so 
> > we have been VERY conservative since first start on Wednedsday) I 
> > throttled back to slow down the engine.  I must have throttled back 
> > too much and the engine died.  I have had this happen before, so I 
> > pushed the starter button again and the engine just turned over and 
> > would not fire.  Sounded just like it did on Tuesday when we had the 
> > injector switches reversed on/off...so, seemingly, no injectors.  
> > Nothing unusual happened...no pop, no bang, no sparks, nothing.
> >  
> > My ECU does not have the trouble shooting upgrade yet, so I checked 
> > the plugs while turning over the engin with  fuel pumps off (no prob 
> > on as of yet) and I have spark.  However, we do not seem to have any 
> > noise coming from the injectors at all.  I tried on both A and B to no 
> > avail.  After checking to see if any wires had come loose and other 
> > basic trouble shooting, I was becoming frustrated (and a little 
> > angry) and for the first time in my 4.9 year build I was feeling a bit 
> > discouraged.
> >  
> > I am new to fuel injection and ECU's.  Any quick guidance y'all may be 
> > able to provide on where to start will be appreaciated.  I did check 
> > to see if the injectors were getting any power by using a test light 
> > where the wire goes into the injector housing and three seem to be 
> > getting power on both wires (both primaries and one 
> > secondary)....every once and a while during this "test", I would hear 
> > a slight click, but that was inconsistant.  When I checked for power 
> > at the resistors (as our set up uses them), the primaries did show 
> > power but the secondaries did not.
> >  
> > This has probably all been coverd on the list and I will try to find 
> > it, however, I am about to hit the sack since I get up at 4:30 am for 
> > work and 10:15 pm is well past my bedtime <g>  I did take off tomorrow 
> > and I hope to spend most of the day in the hangar, so any quick 
> > insight that I can apply tomorrow is greatly appreciated.  Heck, just 
> > y'all allowing me to vent for a few minutes is reelly helpful.  Thanks.
> >  
> > All the best,
> >  
> > Chris
> 
> 
> 
> --
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