X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 10 [X] Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc1-s10.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.82] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.8) with ESMTP id 2042208 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:21:41 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.246.82; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.250.76]) by bay0-omc1-s10.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.2668); Sun, 13 May 2007 09:21:03 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 May 2007 09:21:03 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.150.129 by BAY115-DAV4.phx.gbl with DAV; Sun, 13 May 2007 16:21:00 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.150.129] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Inventor of Wankel Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:20:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0118_01C79559.27923630" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.50.0034.2000 Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:20:55 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 May 2007 16:21:03.0336 (UTC) FILETIME=[B37F4680:01C7957A] Return-Path: lors01@msn.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C79559.27923630 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FWIW, According to Jan Norbye in his book "The Wankel Engine", what we = recognize today as the Wankel was designed by Walter Froede at NSU. = Felix Wankel called it "an abortion" at the time. Tracy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lehanover@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 smoke question In a message dated 5/13/2007 1:50:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = daval@iprimus.com.au writes: Hi Lynn, Felix Wankel designed it, why isn't it really a Wankel? BR, Dave McC Wankel says the shapes involved came to him after Christmas in 1953, = and on other occasions says he was thinking of it since 1922. He built = up two huge catalogs of rotary engine and compressor design shapes. The = first destroyed during the war. So he had exposed himself to the work of = others in a grand and organized way. He built his catalog based on the = types and styles of motion involved in the design. Preferring only = designs involving pure rotary motion.=20 Wankel was working for NSU designing rotating seals for small engines. = NSU was making 50CC mopeds. He convinced NSU to support him in his work = to develop a pure rotary motion engine. He told NSU that he had a deal = with Borsig to develop both a compressor and an engine in an effort to = force NSU to back his rotary ideas. His design was the KDM 53. = Drehkolbenmotor, or, rotary piston engine of 1953.=20 So he had the two shapes we know of today in 1953. However his = proposed design had the fuel air mixture moving through the hollow = crankshaft as in the Le Rhone rotary, and spark plugs installed inside = the rotor. The rotor housing would rotate in the same direction as the = rotor, providing pure rotary motion. If you can imagine the outside of = the engine spinning and the sealing involved to remove exhaust gasses, = you can see Wankel's brain working as usual. He was known as Germany's = sealer, for his work on rotary valves for aircraft engines during the = war.=20 But the engineers at NSU chose to work on (in secrete from Wankel) an = earlier shape, where the exterior of the engine was stationary. Wankel = had discarded this design for its lack of pure rotary motion.=20 Engineers Walter Froede and Dr. Paschke instead took up work on the = KKM or Kreiskolbenmotor for circuitous piston engine. The original design was used as a supercharger on a 50CC NSU = motorcycle to set a record at Bonneville at close to 120 MPH. Another = engine of 125CC produced 21 HP at 15,000 RPM and was run as high as = 25,000 RPM. =20 By 1910 there were over 2,000 patents for rotary engines on file in = England, probably more in Germany. So, it worked as a compressor. It = could be made to work in a laboratory with a short life. It was not at = all practical for automotive use. Curtis Wright contributed a great amount and Toyo Kogyo (Mazda) = perfected the engine to some extent.=20 When it came time to patent the features of the engine, it was = discovered that a patent already existed. A Swiss engineer working for = Truck Builder Saurer, Bernard Maillard had patented the design 11 year = earlier. His design had the seals fixed in the housings rather than on = the rotor tips. Same rotor and housing shapes. For reasons unknown, he = gave up his rights to NSU.=20 So who invented the Wankel engine?=20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- See what's free at = AOL.com. ------=_NextPart_000_0118_01C79559.27923630 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
FWIW,
According to Jan Norbye in his book "The Wankel Engine", what we = recognize=20 today as the Wankel was designed by Walter Froede at NSU.   = Felix=20 Wankel called it  "an abortion" at the time.
 
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 = 10:12 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: EC2 = smoke=20 question

In a message dated 5/13/2007 1:50:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, = daval@iprimus.com.au = writes:
Hi=20 Lynn,
Felix Wankel designed it, why isn't it really a = Wankel?
BR, Dave=20 McC

Wankel says the shapes involved came to him after Christmas in = 1953, and=20 on other occasions says he was thinking of it since 1922. He built up = two huge=20 catalogs of rotary engine and compressor design shapes. The first = destroyed during the war. So he had exposed himself to the work of = others in a=20 grand and organized way. He built his catalog based on the types and = styles of=20 motion involved in the design. Preferring only designs involving = pure=20 rotary motion.
 
Wankel was working for NSU designing rotating seals for small = engines.=20 NSU was making 50CC mopeds. He convinced NSU to support him in his = work to=20 develop a pure rotary motion engine. He told NSU that he had a deal = with=20 Borsig to develop both a compressor and an engine in an effort to = force NSU to=20 back his rotary ideas. His design was the KDM 53. Drehkolbenmotor, or, = rotary=20 piston engine of 1953.
 
So he had the two shapes we know of today in 1953. However his = proposed=20 design had the fuel air mixture moving through the hollow crankshaft = as in the=20 Le Rhone rotary, and spark plugs installed inside the rotor. The rotor = housing=20 would rotate in the same direction as the rotor, providing pure rotary = motion.=20 If you can imagine the outside of the engine spinning and the sealing = involved=20 to remove exhaust gasses, you can see Wankel's brain working as usual. = He was=20 known as Germany's sealer, for his work on rotary valves for aircraft = engines=20 during the war.
 
But the engineers at NSU chose to work on (in secrete from = Wankel) an=20 earlier shape, where the exterior of the engine was stationary. = Wankel=20 had discarded this design for its lack of pure rotary motion.
 
Engineers Walter Froede and Dr. Paschke instead took up work on = the KKM=20 or Kreiskolbenmotor for circuitous piston engine.
 
The original design was used as a supercharger on a 50CC NSU = motorcycle=20 to set a record at Bonneville at close to 120 MPH. Another  = engine of=20 125CC produced 21 HP at 15,000 RPM and was run as high as 25,000 RPM.=20  
 
By 1910 there were over 2,000 patents for rotary engines on file = in=20 England, probably more in Germany. So, it worked as a compressor. It = could be=20 made to work in a laboratory with a short life. It was not at all = practical=20 for automotive use.
 
Curtis Wright contributed a great amount and Toyo=20 Kogyo  (Mazda) perfected the engine to some extent.
 
When it came time to patent the features of the engine, it was = discovered=20 that a patent already existed. A Swiss engineer working for Truck = Builder=20 Saurer, Bernard Maillard had patented the design 11 year earlier. His = design=20 had the seals fixed in the housings rather than on the rotor tips. = Same rotor=20 and housing shapes. For reasons unknown, he gave up his rights to NSU. =
 
So who invented the Wankel engine?
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
   



See what's free at AOL.com.=20
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