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Russell Duffy wrote:
Greetings,
Sorry for the off topic question, but I'm trying to figure out if my DAR is screwing up the operating limitations that he's been issuing.
If you received an airworthiness certificate in the last year or so, would you look and see if you have one, or both of these items:
(17) The pilot in command of this aircraft must hold an appropriate category/class rating. If required, the pilot in command also must hold a type rating in accordance with part 61, or a letter of authorization issued by an FAA Flight Standards Operations Inspector.
(18) The pilot in command of this aircraft must hold a pilot certificate or an authorized instructor’s logbook endorsement. The pilot in command also must meet the requirements of § 61.31(e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (j), as appropriate.
My DAR has been including both, but from what another DAR said, the first applies to turbojet and turbofan aircraft over 12,500 lbs, and item 18 applies to most exp aircraft. If that's true, you should only have one or the other. Item 17 is what's causing me to get a SP category/class rating for my gyroplane, but now I find out that it isn't supposed to be there.
Please just reply to me directly, rather than cluttering up the list with replies.
Rusty,
I am going to reply here because I think the answer is pertinent to the herd.
Both of these are "loophole closers" with regards to technicalities others have used in the past with regards to operating experimental aircrat.
Item 17 is not about turbojets.. Its about category and class. Its boilerplate language that really doesn't apply to you and your aircraft too much provided you are a garden variety ASEL rated pilot and your aircraft is an ASEL type aircraft. In the past year or so, the FAA came out and started enforcing a rule that had not seen much action.. because people were taking their experimental-amatuer built multi engine and seaplane/amphib aircraft and operating them with an ASEL pilot certificate. They were carrying passengers. And accidents were likey happening with pilots who were not properly rated in their own aircraft. Thats what this rule is about. Being qualified to operate the aircraft. If it IS a pure turbojet, then a type rating may be applicable, or you need a waiver from FSDO. I'm guessing Richter with the Jet Cozy might be subject to this, if its in his op lims.
So if you have a seaplane or amphib, the expectation is that you have a seaplane rating if this is in your operating limitations. If you have a complex airplane (flaps plus gear plus controllable prop) you need an endorsement. You have over 200 hp in any one engine, you need an endorsement. You go flying high in a pressurized airplane, you need an endorsement. If you are flying a tailwheel, you need an endorsement. Keep in mind these are the same SAFETY RELATED training requirements imposed on pilots flying certificated aircraft. Get trained. Get the endorsement. It can be as simple as an instructor friend of yours riding with you in your own airplane and being satisfied you are competent at what you are already doing.
ON TOPIC NOTE: if you make more than 200 hp in your rotary, turbo or not, this means you need an endorsement to operate high performance aircraft if this rule (17 as written) is in your ops lim.
Item 18 is just stating what most of us would think is obvious: you must have a license or (solo) endorsement to operate this aircraft.
Just my 2 cents
Dave
61.31 e-j posted below for reference. from www.faa.gov
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=2c358e8413901a3aca73fbb762dba688&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.20&idno=14
e) /Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. /(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a complex airplane (an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller; or, in the case of a seaplane, flaps and a controllable pitch propeller), unless the person has—
(i) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized instructor in a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a complex airplane, and has been found proficient in the operation and systems of the airplane; and
(ii) Received a one-time endorsement in the pilot's logbook from an authorized instructor who certifies the person is proficient to operate a complex airplane.
(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (e)(1) of this section is not required if the person has logged flight time as pilot in command of a complex airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a complex airplane prior to August 4, 1997.
(f) /Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes. /(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an engine of more than 200 horsepower), unless the person has—
(i) Received and logged ground and flight training from an authorized instructor in a high-performance airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a high-performance airplane, and has been found proficient in the operation and systems of the airplane; and
(ii) Received a one-time endorsement in the pilot's logbook from an authorized instructor who certifies the person is proficient to operate a high-performance airplane.
(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (f)(1) of this section is not required if the person has logged flight time as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a high-performance airplane prior to August 4, 1997.
(g) /Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable of operating at high altitudes. /(1) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft (an aircraft that has a service ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above 25,000 feet MSL), unless that person has received and logged ground training from an authorized instructor and obtained an endorsement in the person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who certifies the person has satisfactorily accomplished the ground training. The ground training must include at least the following subjects:
(i) High-altitude aerodynamics and meteorology;
(ii) Respiration;
(iii) Effects, symptoms, and causes of hypoxia and any other high-altitude sickness;
(iv) Duration of consciousness without supplemental oxygen;
(v) Effects of prolonged usage of supplemental oxygen;
(vi) Causes and effects of gas expansion and gas bubble formation;
(vii) Preventive measures for eliminating gas expansion, gas bubble formation, and high-altitude sickness;
(viii) Physical phenomena and incidents of decompression; and
(ix) Any other physiological aspects of high-altitude flight.
(2) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft unless that person has received and logged training from an authorized instructor in a pressurized aircraft, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a pressurized aircraft, and obtained an endorsement in the person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a pressurized aircraft. The flight training must include at least the following subjects:
(i) Normal cruise flight operations while operating above 25,000 feet MSL;
(ii) Proper emergency procedures for simulated rapid decompression without actually depressurizing the aircraft; and
(iii) Emergency descent procedures.
(3) The training and endorsement required by paragraphs (g)(1) and (g)(2) of this section are not required if that person can document satisfactory accomplishment of any of the following in a pressurized aircraft, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a pressurized aircraft:
(i) Serving as pilot in command before April 15, 1991;
(ii) Completing a pilot proficiency check for a pilot certificate or rating before April 15, 1991;
(iii) Completing an official pilot-in-command check conducted by the military services of the United States; or
(iv) Completing a pilot-in-command proficiency check under part 121, 125, or 135 of this chapter conducted by the Administrator or by an approved pilot check airman.
(h) /Additional aircraft type-specific training. /No person may serve as pilot in command of an aircraft that the Administrator has determined requires aircraft type-specific training unless that person has—
(1) Received and logged type-specific training in the aircraft, or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of that type of aircraft; and
(2) Received a logbook endorsement from an authorized instructor who has found the person proficient in the operation of the aircraft and its systems.
(i) /Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes. /(1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane unless that person has received and logged flight training from an authorized instructor in a tailwheel airplane and received an endorsement in the person's logbook from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a tailwheel airplane. The flight training must include at least the following maneuvers and procedures:
(i) Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings;
(ii) Wheel landings (unless the manufacturer has recommended against such landings); and
(iii) Go-around procedures.
(2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (i)(1) of this section is not required if the person logged pilot-in-command time in a tailwheel airplane before April 15, 1991.
(j) /Additional training required for operating a glider. /(1) No person may act as pilot in command of a glider—
Thanks,
Rusty (getting back to the single rotor soon)
Rusty (at) radrotary.com
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