X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] Return-Path: Received: from web81214.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.7) with SMTP id 1907388 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:20:23 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.142.199.43; envelope-from=mike.lafleur@sbcglobal.net Received: (qmail 93716 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Mar 2007 17:19:36 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=sbcglobal.net; h=Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=nYODlEY1XYC1ZgsHbBXvX22kp2JJQl5FlxtZv19oYaFHLZ2+inpzWoUMpM8uPp+kVu0xeRh9X1TCu60/0cN7S4I9is5TedUQiMOBB4DPmH9H0LbVuhce1nI9UAALGiW7VGAp5u7X2v8b6ZJ9DCC51P4Uvh6PSr5jkalg1yOr33A=; Received: from [12.153.240.74] by web81214.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:19:36 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/368.8 YahooMailWebService/0.6.132.8 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:19:36 -0800 (PST) From: Michael LaFleur Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES? To: Rotary motors in aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1644218836-1173287976=:92022" Message-ID: <709098.92022.qm@web81214.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --0-1644218836-1173287976=:92022 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nope, it's a Cozy-IV=0A=0AI've been planning a supercharged Renesis, but th= e NA 20b got me thinking. =0ABut I have to look at weight/balance considera= tions. I was using the IO-360 as a baseline.=0AMy install would have a cust= om lightweight airbox, runners, manifold. (and anything else I can think of= )=0A=0AMike LaFleur=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: "wrjjrs@aol.co= m" =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Wednesday, March 7, 2007 11:59:15 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] = Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES?=0A=0A=0AMike, a couple of points, first= : if you are even considering a IO-360 you are building an older ES not the= newer super ES correct? I mention this since the Super uses a 540 Continen= tal 6 cylinder. Second: The Conti 6 or a lyc O or IO 540 weigh around 500# = ready to operate. Those numbers are from the Lycoming web site and may be a= bit optimistic. I would say at LEAST 500# for a 6 cylinder. So the 20B is = still 50-90# lighter! The IO 360 weighs between 400-450# depending on confi= guration. A clean 13B setup and a IO-360 FWF are about equal in weight.=0A= =0A=0A=0ABill Jepson=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A= =0AFrom: ALVentures@cox.net=0A=0ATo: flyrotary@lancaironline.net=0A=0ASent:= Wed, 7 Mar 2007 7:45 AM=0A=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for = Lancair ES?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A.AOLPlainTextBody {=0Amargin:0px;=0Afont-famil= y:Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif;=0Afont-size:12px;=0Acolor:#000;=0Abac= kground-color:#fff;=0A}=0A=0A.AOLPlainTextBody pre {=0Afont-size:9pt;=0A}= =0A=0A.AOLInlineAttachment {=0Amargin:10px;=0A}=0A=0A.AOLAttachmentHeader {= =0Afont:11px arial;=0Aborder:1px solid #7DA8D4;=0Abackground:#F9F9F9;=0A}= =0A=0A.AOLAttachmentHeader .Title {=0Afont:11px arial;=0Abackground:#B5DDFA= ;=0Apadding:3px 3px 3px 3px;=0A}=0A=0A.AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel {=0A= font:11px arial;=0Acolor:#000000;=0Apadding:1px 10px 1px 9px;=0Abackground:= #F9F9F9;=0A}=0A=0A.AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue {=0Afont:11px arial;=0Ac= olor:#000000;=0Abackground:#F9F9F9;=0A}=0A=0A.AOLAttachmentHeader a, .AOLIm= age a {=0Acolor:#2864B4;=0Atext-decoration:none;=0A}=0A=0A.AOLAttachmentHea= der a:hover, .AOLImage a:hover {=0Acolor:#2864B4;=0Atext-decoration:underli= ne;=0A}=0A=0A.AOLWebSuiteCompose .AOLPicturesFullSizeLink,=0A.AOLWebSuite .= AOLPicturesFullSizeLink {=0Aheight:1px;=0Awidth:1px;=0Aoverflow:hidden;=0A}= =0A=0Abody {=0Abackground-color:white;=0Afont-family:"Verdana";=0Afont-size= :10pt;=0Aborder:0px;=0A}=0A=0A.AOLWebSuiteCompose p {=0Amargin:0px;=0Apaddi= ng:0px;=0A}=0A=0Aimg.managedImg {=0Awidth:0px;=0Aheight:0px;=0A}=0A=0Aimg.p= laceholder {=0Awidth:275px;=0Aheight:206px;=0Abackground:#F4F4F4 center cen= ter no-repeat;=0Aborder:1px solid #DADAD6 !important;=0A}=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ASo we have a data point.=0A=0A=0A= =0A20B FWF w/o prop ~425#=0A=0A=0A=0AHow much does a IO-360 weigh w/o prop,= including fluids & radiators?=0A=0A=0A=0AWhen comparing weights for liquid= cooled you need to include the coolant and radiators, because the IO-360 n= eeds neither. In both cases you generally do not include the oil. My esti= mates are that the IO-360 on a comparable FWF basis would be 40# less. But= for the same power, you should compare to 265hp IO-540; which will be more= than 425#.=0A=0A=0A=0AKeeping the 20B installation down to 425# required c= ustom lightweight induction, exhaust, oil pan, etc.=0A=0A=0A=0AAl=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0AHow much does a 12b weigh w/o prop, including turbo/supercharger, = fluids & radiators?=0A=0A=0A=0AMike LaFleur (dithering between 13b & 20b)= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0A=0AFrom: Al Gietzen =0A=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A=0ASent: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 11:58:06 AM=0A=0ASubject: [FlyRotary]= Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAl G dynoed his= 20B at 295 hp @ 6800 RPM if I remember correctly. (might have been 285) Al= chime in if you see this. The 20B is 50% bigger. (or 1/3 if you prefer) Th= e engine simply doesn't have to be as highly stressed to produce power. For= the ES GET THE 20B.=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AYou remember quite correctly; = 290 @6800 (sea level, std day, and all that). More important to me with 2.= 17 : 1 re-drive, it=92s about 265 hp at 6300 (2900 at the prop), and 200 at= an easy cruise rpm of 4800. That engine should go many hours at those cond= itions. If you want more horses, go with 2.85:1 re-drive.=0A=0A=0A=0AAll up= FWF weight (w/o prop) is about 425# including coolant and radiators.=0A=0A= =0A=0AI have no first hand experience with the Renesis; but for an ES, I=92= d go with the 20B.=0A=0A=0A=0AAl=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out= more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A --0-1644218836-1173287976=:92022 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Nope, it's a Cozy-IV

I've been planning a supercharged Renesi= s, but the NA 20b got me thinking.
But I have to look at weight/balance= considerations. I was using the IO-360 as a baseline.
My install would = have a custom lightweight airbox, runners, manifold. (and anything else I c= an think of)

Mike LaFleur

----- Original Message ----=
From: "wrjjrs@aol.com" <wrjjrs@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in a= ircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 20= 07 11:59:15 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES?<= br>
=0A
Mike, a couple of points, first: if you are even considering= a IO-360 you are building an older ES not the newer super ES correct? I me= ntion this since the Super uses a 540 Continental 6 cylinder. Second: The C= onti 6 or a lyc O or IO 540 weigh around 500# = ready to operate. Those numbers are from the Lycoming web site and may be a= bit optimistic. I would say at LEAST 500# for a 6 cylinder. So the 20B is = still 50-90# lighter! The IO 360 weighs between 400-450# depending on confi= guration. A clean 13B setup and a IO-360 FWF are about equal in weight.=0A=0A=0A
Bill Jepson
=0A=0A=0A
 
=0A 
=0A= -----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: ALVentures@cox.net
=0ATo: flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net
=0ASent: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 7:45 AM
=0ASubject: [Fl= yRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES?
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<= font face=3D"Garamond" size=3D"3">So we have a data point.
=0A
=0A20B FWF w/o prop ~425#=
=0A
=0AHow much does a IO-360 weigh w/o prop, including fluids &= radiators?
=0A=0A=0A
When compari= ng weights for liquid cooled you need to include the coolant and radiators,= because the IO-360 needs neither.  In both cases you generally do not= include the oil.  My estimates are that the IO-360 on a comparable FW= F basis would be 40# less.  But for the same power, you should compare to 265hp IO-540; which will be more t= han 425#.
=0A=0A=0A
Keeping the 20= B installation down to 425# required custom lightweight induction, exhaust,= oil pan, etc.
=0A=0A=0A
= Al
=0A=0A=0A

=0AHow much= does a 12b weigh w/o prop, including turbo/supercharger, fluids & radiators?
=0A
=0AMike L= aFleur (dithering between 13b & 20b)
=0A=0A=0A
= =0A=0A
----- Original Message ----
=0AFrom: Al Gietze= n <ALVentures@cox.net>
=0ATo: Rotary motor= s in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=0ASent: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 11:58:06 AM
=0ASubject: = [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES?
=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A
Al G dynoed h= is 20B at 295 hp @ 6800 RPM if I remember correctly. (might have been 285) = Al chime in if you see this. The 20B is 50% bigger. (or 1/3 if you prefer) = The engine simply doesn't have to be as highly stressed to produce power. F= or the ES GET THE 20B.
=0A=0A=0A
=  
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You remember quite= correctly; 290 @6800 (sea level, std day, and all that).  More import= ant to me with 2.17 : 1 re-drive, it=92s about 265 hp at 6300 (2900 at the = prop), and 200 at an easy cruise rpm of 4800. That engine should go many ho= urs at those conditions. If you want more horses, go with 2.85:1 re-drive.<= /span>
=0A=0A=0A
All up FWF weight (w/o pr= op) is about 425# including coolant and radiators.
=0A= =0A=0A
I have no first hand experience with the Renesi= s; but for an ES, I=92d go with the 20B.
=0A=0A=0A
Al
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&nbs= p;
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=0AAOL now offers fr= ee email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com<= /a>.
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