X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 30 [X] Return-Path: Received: from imo-d21.mx.aol.com ([205.188.144.207] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.7) with ESMTP id 1907346 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:00:20 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.144.207; envelope-from=WRJJRS@aol.com Received: from WRJJRS@aol.com by imo-d21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r7.6.) id q.cfe.b177b2a (60465) for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:59:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from webmail-de08 (webmail-de08.webmail.aol.com [205.188.104.29]) by ciaaol-m01.mx.aol.com (v114_r3.4) with ESMTP id MAILCIAAOLM012-ec3145eeef627; Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:59:14 -0500 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES? Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:59:15 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: wrjjrs@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8C92EF1123E0161_4E4_554B_webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL WebMail 24019 Received: from 65.161.241.3 by webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com (205.188.104.29) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 07 Mar 2007 11:59:15 -0500 Message-Id: <8C92EF1123E0161-4E4-2E7F@webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com> X-AOL-IP: 205.188.104.29 X-Spam-Flag: NO ----------MB_8C92EF1123E0161_4E4_554B_webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Mike, a couple of points, first: if you are even considering a IO-360 you ar= e building an older ES not the newer super ES correct? I mention this since=20= the Super uses a 540 Continental 6 cylinder. Second: The Conti 6 or a lyc O=20= or IO 540 weigh around 500# ready to operate. Those numbers are from the Lyc= oming web site and may be a bit optimistic. I would say at LEAST 500# for a=20= 6 cylinder. So the 20B is still 50-90# lighter! The IO 360 weighs between 40= 0-450# depending on configuration. A clean 13B setup and a IO-360 FWF are ab= out equal in weight. Bill Jepson =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: ALVentures@cox.net To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 7:45 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES? =20 So we have a data point. 20B FWF w/o prop ~425# How much does a IO-360 weigh w/o prop, including fluids & radiators? When comparing weights for liquid cooled you need to include the coolant and= radiators, because the IO-360 needs neither. In both cases you generally d= o not include the oil. My estimates are that the IO-360 on a comparable FWF= basis would be 40# less. But for the same power, you should compare to 265= hp IO-540; which will be more than 425#. Keeping the 20B installation down to 425# required custom lightweight induct= ion, exhaust, oil pan, etc. Al How much does a 12b weigh w/o prop, including turbo/supercharger, fluids & r= adiators? Mike LaFleur (dithering between 13b & 20b) ----- Original Message ---- From: Al Gietzen To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 11:58:06 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES? Al G dynoed his 20B at 295 hp @ 6800 RPM if I remember correctly. (might hav= e been 285) Al chime in if you see this. The 20B is 50% bigger. (or 1/3 if y= ou prefer) The engine simply doesn't have to be as highly stressed to produc= e power. For the ES GET THE 20B. =20 You remember quite correctly; 290 @6800 (sea level, std day, and all that).=20= More important to me with 2.17 : 1 re-drive, it=E2=80=99s about 265 hp at 6= 300 (2900 at the prop), and 200 at an easy cruise rpm of 4800. That engine s= hould go many hours at those conditions. If you want more horses, go with 2.= 85:1 re-drive. All up FWF weight (w/o prop) is about 425# including coolant and radiators. I have no first hand experience with the Renesis; but for an ES, I=E2=80=99d= go with the 20B. Al =20 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from= AOL at AOL.com. ----------MB_8C92EF1123E0161_4E4_554B_webmail-de08.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Mike, a couple of points, first: if you are even considering a IO-360 y= ou are building an older ES not the newer super ES correct? I mention this s= ince the Super uses a 540 Continental 6 cylinder. Second: The Conti 6 or a l= yc O or IO 540 weigh around 500# ready to operate. Those numbers are from the=20= Lycoming web site and may be a bit optimistic. I would say at LEAST 500# for= a 6 cylinder. So the 20B is still 50-90# lighter! The IO 360 weighs between= 400-450# depending on configuration. A clean 13B setup and a IO-360 FWF are= about equal in weight.
Bill Jepson
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ALVentures@cox.net
To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net
Sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 7:45 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES?

 
So we have a data point.

20B FWF w/o prop ~425#

How much does a IO-360 weigh w/o prop, including fluids & radiators?
When comparing weights for liquid cooled you need to include the=20= coolant and radiators, because the IO-360 needs neither.  In both cases= you generally do not include the oil.  My estimates are that the IO-36= 0 on a comparable FWF basis would be 40# less.  But for the same power, you should compare to 265hp IO-540; which will be more=20= than 425#.
Keeping the 20B installation down to 425# required custom lightwe= ight induction, exhaust, oil pan, etc.
Al

How much does a 12b weigh w/o prop, including turbo/supercharger, fluids & radiators?

Mike LaFleur (dithering between 13b & 20b)
----- Original Message ----
From: Al Gietzen <ALVentures@cox.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 11:58:06 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 20b vs. Renesis for Lancair ES?
Al G dynoed his 20B at 295 hp=20= @ 6800 RPM if I remember correctly. (might have been 285) Al chime in if you= see this. The 20B is 50% bigger. (or 1/3 if you prefer) The engine simply d= oesn't have to be as highly stressed to produce power. For the ES GET THE 20= B.
 
You remember quite correctly; 290 @6800 (sea level, std day, and a= ll that).  More important to me with 2.17 : 1 re-drive, it=E2=80=99s ab= out 265 hp at 6300 (2900 at the prop), and 200 at an easy cruise rpm of 4800= . That engine should go many hours at those conditions. If you want more hor= ses, go with 2.85:1 re-drive.
All up FWF weight (w/o prop) is about 425# including coolant and r= adiators.
I have no first hand experience with the Renesis; but for an ES, I= =E2=80=99d go with the 20B.
Al
 <= /FONT>
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from= AOL at AOL.com.<= br />
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