X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 2 [X] Return-Path: Received: from [201.225.225.169] (HELO cwpanama.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.6) with ESMTP id 1862023 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:54:27 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=201.225.225.169; envelope-from=rijakits@cwpanama.net Received: from [201.224.94.164] (HELO usuario5ebe209) by frontend3.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 101892999 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 25 Feb 2007 12:01:23 -0500 Message-ID: <01f801c758fd$6a539060$a45ee0c9@usuario5ebe209> From: "Thomas y Reina Jakits" To: "FlyRotary" Subject: Fw: [FlyRotary] Re: motor mount plate Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 11:53:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F5_01C758D3.814931F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F5_01C758D3.814931F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Thomas y Reina Jakits=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: motor mount plate Kelly, maybe you should talk to Francois about your specific installation, = ....again. He would be the one to answer. Just looking through their line-up, attached a pics from the Mistral = site. Pic1shows that their package is very streamlined/integrated. Website = says lots of FE-analyses. Your package may differ and torsional intergrity may look different... Thomas=20 PS: Pic 1 follows without comment.... ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Lehanover@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 9:07 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: motor mount plate In a message dated 2/24/2007 7:55:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, = keltro@att.net writes: Lynn, And here I sit with a "Mistral" mount plate residing where the stock front cover used to be on my 13B.......It allows the use of a standard Lycoming "Dynafocal" mount ring to bolt my engine to my "Dyke Delta".....What do you think are the chances of my normally aspirated rotary from over-stressing its end-plates and rotor housings......."Mistral" does have provisions for using a four point bed type mount on the 13B (using their redrive) and it is required on their 20B , three rotor engine ......... Attached photo is of "Mistral" 13B on a Glasair project of one the rotary group, Steve Thomas in Calif.......Hope you do not mind Steve!! -- Kelly Troyer=20 "Dyke Delta"_13B ROTARY Engine=20 "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 "Mistral"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 Francios Had the reduction unit in the motor tent at Sun & Fun about 5 = years ago, looking like a lost puppy. They had been trying to get the = Piper to fly long enough without frying the oil so they could have it on = display at the flight line. No dice. I talked to him for a very long = time. He took notes. They are all engineers, and trust math to get them = out of anything. So they calculated everything, and on paper there would be enough oil = cooling to do the job.=20 Well that test location was in Florida before Global warming had died = down. I suggested best power was down around 160 degrees max, and he was = sad. The coolers were big enough. The flow rate was high enough. = Airflow through the coolers was high enough. The oil temp would just slowly climb into the red 230-240-250 and land = again. They didn't realize the Mazda pump was designed to work OK at 2,000 = crankshaft RPM. So, at 6,000 RPM it foams the daylights out of the oil. And air in the = oil is an insulator, and the effect is that the coolers get smaller with = time. The oil pump has a front and rear segment and those are shaded = just a bit to reduce noise. Both must pull suction oil from the back end = so the number of sharp corners the oil sees inside the pump is more than = a normal pump.=20 Plus, the higher flow was unhappy with the tiny bug screen at the end = of a sharp edged tube in the pickup. So, there was a vena contracta = problem. So, they took off the bug screen and it started working well. = They took out the airplane oil and put in car oil Fewer polymers, and it = worked better. They made up a dual pickup casting to feed both ends of = the pump like the FD oil pump and everything is fine.=20 The point of the story is that the mechanical parts have many actual = hours of flying in a real airplane in hot weather. So, it is thoroughly = test in a real life situation.=20 Their front Iron and mount is thicker and stiffer than the stock = stuff. There will be no problems. Lynn E. Hanover -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free = from AOL at AOL.com. ------=_NextPart_000_01F5_01C758D3.814931F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Thomas y Reina=20 Jakits
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: motor mount plate

Kelly,
maybe you should talk to Francois about your = specific=20 installation, ....again.
He would be the one to answer.
Just looking through their line-up, attached a = pics from=20 the Mistral site.
Pic1shows that their package is very = streamlined/integrated.=20 Website says lots of FE-analyses.
Your package may differ and torsional intergrity may = look=20 different...
 
 
Thomas 
 
PS: Pic 1 follows without comment....
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Lehanover@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, February 24, = 2007 9:07=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: motor = mount=20 plate

In a message dated 2/24/2007 7:55:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, = keltro@att.net writes:
Lynn,
   And here I sit with a "Mistral" mount plate = residing where=20 the
stock front cover used to be on my 13B.......It allows the use = of
a standard Lycoming "Dynafocal" mount ring to bolt my = engine
to my "Dyke Delta".....What do you think are the chances = of=20 my
normally aspirated rotary from over-stressing its end-plates = and
rotor housings......."Mistral" does have provisions for using = a
four point bed type mount on the 13B (using their redrive) = and
it is required on their 20B , three rotor=20 engine ......... Attached
photo is of "Mistral" 13B on a Glasair project of one the = rotary
group, Steve Thomas in Calif.......Hope you do not mind = Steve!!
--
Kelly Troyer
"Dyke = Delta"_13B=20 ROTARY Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"Mistral"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=20
Francios Had the reduction unit in the motor tent at = Sun &=20 Fun about 5 years ago, looking like a lost puppy. They had been trying = to get=20 the Piper to fly long enough without frying the oil so they could have = it on=20 display at the flight line. No dice. I talked to him for a very long = time. He=20 took notes. They are all engineers, and trust math to get them out of=20 anything.
 
So they calculated everything, and on paper there would be enough = oil=20 cooling to do the job.
Well that test location was in Florida before Global warming had = died=20 down. I suggested best power was down around 160 degrees max, and he = was sad.=20  The coolers were big enough. The flow rate was high enough. = Airflow=20 through the coolers was high enough.
The oil temp would just slowly climb into the red 230-240-250 and = land=20 again.
 
They didn't realize the Mazda pump was designed to work OK at = 2,000=20 crankshaft RPM.
 
So, at 6,000 RPM it foams the daylights out of the oil. And air = in the=20 oil is an insulator, and the effect is that the coolers get smaller = with time.=20 The oil pump has a front and rear segment and those are shaded just a = bit to=20 reduce noise. Both must pull suction oil from the back end so the = number of=20 sharp corners the oil sees inside the pump is more than a normal pump. =
Plus, the higher flow was unhappy with the tiny bug screen at the = end of=20 a sharp edged tube in the pickup. So, there was a vena contracta = problem.=20  So, they took off the bug screen and it started working well. = They took=20 out the airplane oil and put in car oil Fewer polymers, and it worked = better.=20 They made up a dual pickup casting to feed both ends of the pump like = the FD=20 oil pump and everything is fine.
 
The point of the story is that the mechanical parts have many = actual=20 hours of flying in a real airplane in hot weather. So, it is = thoroughly test=20 in a real life situation.
 
Their front Iron and mount is thicker and stiffer than the stock = stuff.=20 There will be no problems.
 
Lynn E. Hanover



AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free = from=20 AOL at AOL.com. ------=_NextPart_000_01F5_01C758D3.814931F0--