X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 11 [X] Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-05.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.104] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.5) with ESMTP id 1800228 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:56:43 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.104; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-103-061.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.103.61]) by ms-smtp-05.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id l0UMthOv013748 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:55:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002401c744c1$cc695320$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: New Cowl Contest Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:55:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0021_01C74497.E344B5F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C74497.E344B5F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good Grief, Jarrett, that is a monstrous piece of machinery (even a = smaller version). Looks like you could carve your own SR-71 out of a = single piece of titanium. Impressive. Looking forward to your website. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: H & J Johnson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 5:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Cowl Contest George, its a Gantry Mill, the parts sit almost right on the floor and = the gantry runs on two long side rails which are bolted into the floor. = Attached is a picture showing a similar type of machine. This particular = unit is from Scaled in So-cal. Mine is smaller than this unit, but then = I didn't have the budget that they do :-) I'll have pictures/vid's up on my website, which should be in about a = month. Jarrett ----- Original Message ----- From: George Lendich =20 Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:58 pm=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Cowl Contest=20 >=20 > Jarrett,=20 > What sort of CNC is that ?=20 > George ( down under)=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Dave,=20 >=20 > I'd vote for the smiley, I would still wonder if having the=20 > opening out off the bottom face of the cowl wouldn't be better.=20 > Mind you, two other things come into play. There probably isn't to=20 > much [more] turbulent air or thicker boundry layer that close=20 > behind the prop at that location. No more than the turbulance=20 > farther out. Secondly, the rotational vector up close to the cowl=20 > very well could be less than farther out.[ to exagerate the issue,=20 > imagine the rotational vector out near the prop tip's.]=20 >=20 > I've designed a few cowls over the last couple years. Attached=20 > are a couple pictures to illustrate. Since you plan to use a lower=20 > and upper ducting, I've attached drawings/pic's showing how I've=20 > done both designs. It would be a simple matter to combine the two,=20 > to arrive at your desired design.=20 >=20 > Also I've not said much in the past, but my CNC mill has been=20 > installed and is just awaiting final wire-up and commisioning. I=20 > plan to start offering its use to the Rotary crowd in producing=20 > components like cowls, proper diffusion ducting, spinners [which=20 > properly fair into the cowls] etc. Theres many other components=20 > I'd like to get into building but plan to start out with these few=20 > and expand from there. The mill is currently capable of milling=20 > parts up to 8 x 18 x 3 [feet] and will be upgraded in the spring=20 > to have a 4ft [instead of 3] Z axis. Later, we plan to expand its=20 > abilities to 5 axis, however this is more in the neighbourhood of=20 > a year or so.=20 >=20 > I'll have a website up in the next month or so. However the=20 > meantime, if I can be of help, please let me know.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Jarrett Johnson=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 >=20 >=20 > From: David Leonard =20 >=20 > Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:22 pm=20 >=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Cowl Contest=20 >=20 >=20 > > Todd, if it aint broke dont fix it!!!!=20 > >=20 > > You are right about the boundry layer. But you can make up=20 > for=20 > > that with a=20 > > little extra size or maybe moving closer to the prop (eg P-=20 > 40).=20 > >=20 > > Also, Doug dempsy has been telling me how Chuck Dunlap had a=20 > real=20 > > problemwith a duct that was away from the boundry layer, but=20 > fixed=20 > > his issue when=20 > > he make it bigger and more like the smile.=20 > >=20 > > The smile votes seem to have it so far...=20 > >=20 > > Dave Leonard=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > On 1/30/07, Todd Bartrim wrote:=20 > > >=20 > > > I was thinking that the "oh cowl" would be better at=20 > excluding the=20 > > > boundary layer, which would be better for cooling. This is=20 > just=20 > > based on=20 > > > comments I've read on the list during previous ducting=20 > > discussions. Based on=20 > > > this info, I felt my oil cooler duct was less than optimal=20 > (even=20 > > though> temps are good), so I figured I could reduce the size=20 > of=20 > > my inlet if I=20 > > > eliminated the boundary air layer. As your "smile" duct is=20 > > similar (see=20 > > > attached pic) I figured this would be applicable. I hope I'm=20 > > wrong and you=20 > > > prove it before I change my cowl.=20 > > >=20 > > > Todd (building Electric Bob's Audio Isolator Amplifier=20 > today)=20 > > >=20 > > > On 1/30/07, Ernest Christley wrote:=20 > > > >=20 > > > > David Leonard wrote:=20 > > > >=20 > > > > > I call them the "Oh Cowl" and the "Smiley Cowl..."his=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Go with the smile, but put a raised ledge on the cowl side=20 > > just behind=20 > > > > the spinner to accelerate the air and thin the boundary=20 > layer.=20 > > Reduces=20 > > > > the ingestion of turbulent air. Check the CAFE=20 > Foundation's drag=20 > > > > reduction report. They have a picture of what it looks=20 > like=20 > > on a=20 > > > > production aircraft. I have a link to it at home, but not=20 > here.=20 > > > >=20 > > > > --=20 > > > > ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |=20 > > > > ----=3D=3D=3D<{{(oQo)}}>=3D=3D=3D---- Dyke Delta Builder = |=20 > > > > o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |=20 > > > >=20 > > > > --=20 > > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > > > > Archive and UnSub: =20 > > http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/> >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > --=20 > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > > > Archive and UnSub: =20 > http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > > David Leonard=20 > >=20 > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=20 > > My websites at:=20 > > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html=20 > > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html=20 > > http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------=20 > -----------=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ = >=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C74497.E344B5F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good Grief, Jarrett, that is a monstrous piece = of=20 machinery (even a smaller version).  Looks like you could = carve your=20 own SR-71 out of a single piece of titanium.  Impressive.  = Looking=20 forward to your website.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 H & J=20 Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 = 5:09=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New = Cowl=20 Contest

George, its a Gantry Mill, the parts sit almost right on the = floor and=20 the gantry runs on two long side rails which are bolted into the = floor.=20 Attached is a picture showing a similar type of machine. This = particular unit=20 is from Scaled in So-cal. Mine is smaller than this unit, but then I = didn't=20 have the budget that they do :-)

I'll have pictures/vid's up on my website, which should be = in about=20 a month.

Jarrett

 

----- Original Message -----

From: George Lendich <lendich@optusnet.com.au>=20

Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 3:58 pm=20

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Cowl Contest=20

>
>   Jarrett,
>  What sort of = CNC is=20 that ?
>  George ( down under)
>
>
> =
>=20
>
>
>  Dave,
>
>  I'd = vote for=20 the smiley, I would still wonder if having the
> opening out = off the=20 bottom face of the cowl wouldn't be better.
> Mind you, two = other=20 things come into play. There probably isn't to
> much [more] = turbulent=20 air or thicker boundry layer that close
> behind the prop at = that=20 location. No more than the turbulance
> farther out. Secondly, = the=20 rotational vector up close to the cowl
> very well could be = less than=20 farther out.[ to exagerate the issue,
> imagine the rotational = vector=20 out near the prop tip's.]
>
>  I've designed a few=20 cowls  over the last couple years. Attached
> are a couple = pictures to illustrate. Since you plan to use a lower
> and = upper=20 ducting, I've attached drawings/pic's showing how I've
> done = both=20 designs. It would be a simple matter to combine the two,
> to = arrive at=20 your desired design.
>
>  Also I've not said much = in the=20 past, but my CNC mill has been
> installed and is just awaiting = final=20 wire-up and commisioning. I
> plan to start offering its use to = the=20 Rotary crowd in producing
> components like cowls, proper = diffusion=20 ducting, spinners [which
> properly fair into the cowls] etc. = Theres=20 many other components
> I'd like to get into building but plan = to start=20 out with these few
> and expand from there. The mill is = currently=20 capable of milling
> parts up to 8 x 18 x 3 [feet] and will be = upgraded=20 in the spring
> to have a 4ft [instead of 3] Z axis. Later, we = plan to=20 expand its
> abilities to 5 axis, however this is more in the=20 neighbourhood of
> a year or so.
>
>  I'll = have a=20 website up in the next month or so. However the
> meantime, if = I can be=20 of help, please let me know.
>
>
>
>  = Jarrett=20 Johnson
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> =
>
>  From: David Leonard = <wdleonard@gmail.com>=20
>
>  Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 2:22 pm =
>=20
>  Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: New Cowl Contest
> =
>=20
>  > Todd, if it aint broke dont fix it!!!! =
>  >=20
>  > You are right about the boundry layer.  But = you can=20 make up
> for
>  > that with a
>  = >=20 little extra size or maybe moving closer to the prop (eg P-
> = 40).=20
>  >
>  > Also, Doug dempsy has been = telling me=20 how Chuck Dunlap had a
> real
>  > problemwith a = duct=20 that was away from the boundry layer, but
> fixed =
>  >=20 his issue when
>  > he make it bigger and more like the = smile.=20
>  >
>  > The smile votes seem to have = it so=20 far...
>  >
>  > Dave Leonard =
> =20 >
>  >
>  > On 1/30/07, Todd Bartrim=20 <bartrim@gmail.com> wrote:
>  > > =
>  >=20 > I was thinking that the "oh cowl" would be better at
> = excluding=20 the
>  > > boundary layer, which would be better for = cooling. This is
> just
>  > based on =
> =20 > > comments I've read on the list during previous ducting=20
>  > discussions. Based on
>  > > = this info,=20 I felt my oil cooler duct was less than optimal
> (even =
> =20 > though> temps are good), so I figured I could reduce the size =
>=20 of
>  > my inlet if I
>  > > = eliminated the=20 boundary air layer. As your "smile" duct is
>  > = similar (see=20
>  > > attached pic) I figured this would be = applicable. I=20 hope I'm
>  > wrong and you
>  > > = prove it=20 before I change my cowl.
>  > >
>  > = >=20 Todd    (building Electric Bob's Audio Isolator = Amplifier=20
> today)
>  > >
>  > > On = 1/30/07,=20 Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com > wrote:
>  = > >=20 >
>  > > > David Leonard wrote:
>  = >=20 > >
>  > > > > I call them the "Oh Cowl" = and the=20 "Smiley Cowl..."his
>  > > >
>  > = >=20 > Go with the smile, but put a raised ledge on the cowl side =
> =20 > just behind
>  > > > the spinner to = accelerate the=20 air and thin the boundary
> layer.
>  > Reduces=20
>  > > > the ingestion of turbulent air.  = Check the=20 CAFE
> Foundation's drag
>  > > > = reduction=20 report.  They have a picture of what it looks
> like=20
>  > on a
>  > > > production=20 aircraft.  I have a link to it at home, but not
> here.=20
>  > > >
>  > > > -- =
> =20 > > >         =20 = ,|"|"|,           =   =20 Ernest Christley       |
>  = >=20 > > = ----=3D=3D=3D<{{(oQo)}}>=3D=3D=3D----    Dyke Delta = Builder      |
>  > >=20 >         o|  d =20 |o        = http://ernest.isa-geek.org =20 |
>  > > >
>  > > > --=20
>  > > > Homepage:  = http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
>  > > > Archive and UnSub:   =
> =20 > http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/> > =
> =20 > >
>  > >
>  > > -- =
> =20 > > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>  = > >=20 Archive and UnSub:  
>=20 http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>  > = >=20
>  > >
>  > >
>  > = >=20
>  >
>  >
>  > -- =
> =20 > David Leonard
>  >
>  > Turbo = Rotary RV-6=20 N4VY
>  > My websites at:
>  >=20 http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
>  = >=20 http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html
>  >=20 http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com
>  >
> =
>=20
> = -------------------------------------------------------------------=20
> -----------
>
>
>  -- =
> =20 Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>  Archive and=20 UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ =
>=20

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
------=_NextPart_000_0021_01C74497.E344B5F0--