X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 30 [X] Return-Path: Received: from mail25.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.133.166] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.5) with ESMTPS id 1784310 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 02:13:18 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.133.166; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d211-31-182-166.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [211.31.182.166]) by mail25.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.13.1/8.13.1) with SMTP id l0N7CLC6009661 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 18:12:23 +1100 Message-ID: <001401c73ebd$d5da19d0$a6b61fd3@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: alcohol in fuel Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 17:12:23 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73F11.A60667A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 0657-0, 12/12/2006), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73F11.A60667A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, My past research indicates that Hysol is a very high quality product - = Used in the Europa as well I believe. George ( down under) Charlie Smith, who used to be on the list but isn't any more is an = industrial chemist. He is building the same plane as I am, and we use = the Aeropoxy system. As a test, I made up some samples (1" square pieces = of fiberglass) and coated them with Jeffco 9700 FCR. He made up some = samples coated with Aeropoxy. He then weighed them and then soaked them = in 10 (or 15?)% alcohol in gasoline. The Jeffco samples did swell some = and gain some weight, but remained intact. The Aeropoxy samples flaked = off and disintegrated. Our interpretation was that the Jeffco coating is fine, but we are = still concerned about the joint where the wing skin is bonded on as the = last step to closing the wing. That area is impossible to coat with the = Jeffco. That bonding agent is a Hysol material that we have not tested = with the alcohol. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Maher=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:33 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: alcohol in fuel I used both the Aeropoxy and West Systems in the construction of my = integral fuel tank. I can now confirm that the tank has been severely deteriorated by = the use of auto fuel, mostly in the last year or two since ethanol has = been added. Jim Dyke Delta N11XD Dale Rogers wrote: To put a bit of perspective on this, one will be hard pressed to = find a=20 laminating epoxy that is in the 100:25 range, such as Al W wrote. E-Z Poxy 100:45 by weight MGS 285/287 (and 335) 100:45 by weight Pro-Set 100:30 by weight AEROPOXY is 100:27 by weight=20 ACSpruce's data on the West System 105/205 spec was "5:1"=20 which suggests it is a volume measurement, but it doesn't have=20 the Rutan Blessing, last I knew. IIRC, Perry Mick used MGS 335 and runs auto fuel in his EZ. Al Gietzen wrote:=20 Al W wrote: After flying for six years, finally removed and disassembled my = glass and foam header tank. During those six years I periodically used = ethanol fuel and whatever. Always used auto fuel. No evidence of degradation = of any component....soft aluminum, foam, epoxy. All looks perfect.=20 That's good news. Just a reminder, all epoxy that is fuel exposed must be high = ratio type. Like 4 to 1. 50/50 ratio epoxies can NOT handle "fuel" over = time. That's bad news. Should I conclude from this that EZ-poxy = (44-56 by weight) will NOT handle fuel with ethanol? I assume when you = say "fuel" you mean fuel with ethanol, since experience has shown that = EZ-poxy has handled auto fuel for periods of 15 years in some EZs. Al G -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C73F11.A60667A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
My past research indicates that Hysol = is a=20 very high quality product - Used in the Europa as well I=20 believe.
George ( down under)
Charlie Smith, who used to be on the = list but=20 isn't any more is an industrial chemist. He is building the same plane = as I=20 am, and we use the Aeropoxy system. As a test, I made up some samples = (1"=20 square pieces of fiberglass) and coated them with Jeffco 9700 FCR. He = made up=20 some samples coated with Aeropoxy. He then weighed them and then = soaked them=20 in 10 (or 15?)% alcohol in gasoline. The Jeffco samples did swell some = and=20 gain some weight, but remained intact. The Aeropoxy samples flaked off = and=20 disintegrated.
 
Our interpretation was that the = Jeffco coating is=20 fine, but we are still concerned about the joint where the wing skin = is bonded=20 on as the last step to closing the wing. That area is impossible to = coat with=20 the Jeffco. That bonding agent is a Hysol material that we have not = tested=20 with the alcohol.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 James=20 Maher
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, January 22, = 2007 9:33=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = alcohol in=20 fuel

I used both the Aeropoxy and West Systems in the construction = of my=20 integral fuel tank.
I can now confirm that the tank has been severely deteriorated = by the=20 use of auto fuel, mostly in the last year or two since ethanol has = been=20 added.
Jim
Dyke Delta N11XD

Dale Rogers <dale.r@cox.net> = wrote:
To=20 put a bit of perspective on this, one will be hard pressed to find = a=20
laminating epoxy that is in the 100:25 range, such as Al W=20 wrote.


E-Z Poxy  100:45 by weight

MGS = 285/287 (and=20 335)  100:45 by weight

Pro-Set 100:30 by=20 weight

AEROPOXY is 100:27 by weight

ACSpruce's data = on the=20 West System 105/205 spec was "5:1"
which suggests it is a = volume=20 measurement, but it doesn't have
the Rutan Blessing, last I=20 knew.

IIRC, Perry Mick used MGS 335 and runs auto fuel in = his=20 EZ.


Al Gietzen wrote:=20
Al = W=20 wrote:
 
After flying for six years, finally = removed and=20 disassembled my glass and
foam header tank. During those six = years I=20 periodically used ethanol fuel
and whatever. Always used auto = fuel.  No=20 evidence of degradation of any
component....soft aluminum, foam, = epoxy. All=20 looks perfect.
 
That=92s good=20 news.
 
Just a reminder, all epoxy that is = fuel exposed=20 must be high ratio type.
Like 4 to 1.   50/50 ratio = epoxies can=20 NOT handle =93fuel=94 over time.
 
That=92s bad=20 news.  Should I conclude from this that EZ-poxy (44-56 by = weight)=20 will NOT handle fuel with ethanol?  I assume when you say = =93fuel=94=20 you mean fuel with ethanol, since experience has shown that = EZ-poxy has=20 handled auto fuel for periods of 15 years in some=20 EZs.
 
Al=20 G
 

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