X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Return-Path: Received: from alnrmhc11.comcast.net ([206.18.177.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.5) with ESMTP id 1783905 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 22 Jan 2007 20:16:32 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=206.18.177.51; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from 7n7z201 (c-24-7-194-231.hsd1.il.comcast.net[24.7.194.231]) by comcast.net (alnrmhc11) with SMTP id <20070123011536b11000spcje>; Tue, 23 Jan 2007 01:15:46 +0000 Message-ID: <004001c73e8c$04fa6210$e7c20718@7n7z201> From: "Bill Schertz" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: alcohol in fuel Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:15:38 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003A_01C73E59.B3A45010" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C73E59.B3A45010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie Smith, who used to be on the list but isn't any more is an = industrial chemist. He is building the same plane as I am, and we use = the Aeropoxy system. As a test, I made up some samples (1" square pieces = of fiberglass) and coated them with Jeffco 9700 FCR. He made up some = samples coated with Aeropoxy. He then weighed them and then soaked them = in 10 (or 15?)% alcohol in gasoline. The Jeffco samples did swell some = and gain some weight, but remained intact. The Aeropoxy samples flaked = off and disintegrated. Our interpretation was that the Jeffco coating is fine, but we are still = concerned about the joint where the wing skin is bonded on as the last = step to closing the wing. That area is impossible to coat with the = Jeffco. That bonding agent is a Hysol material that we have not tested = with the alcohol. Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser # 4045 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Maher=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:33 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: alcohol in fuel I used both the Aeropoxy and West Systems in the construction of my = integral fuel tank. I can now confirm that the tank has been severely deteriorated by the = use of auto fuel, mostly in the last year or two since ethanol has been = added. Jim Dyke Delta N11XD Dale Rogers wrote: To put a bit of perspective on this, one will be hard pressed to = find a=20 laminating epoxy that is in the 100:25 range, such as Al W wrote. E-Z Poxy 100:45 by weight MGS 285/287 (and 335) 100:45 by weight Pro-Set 100:30 by weight AEROPOXY is 100:27 by weight=20 ACSpruce's data on the West System 105/205 spec was "5:1"=20 which suggests it is a volume measurement, but it doesn't have=20 the Rutan Blessing, last I knew. IIRC, Perry Mick used MGS 335 and runs auto fuel in his EZ. Al Gietzen wrote:=20 Al W wrote: After flying for six years, finally removed and disassembled my = glass and foam header tank. During those six years I periodically used = ethanol fuel and whatever. Always used auto fuel. No evidence of degradation = of any component....soft aluminum, foam, epoxy. All looks perfect.=20 That's good news. Just a reminder, all epoxy that is fuel exposed must be high ratio = type. Like 4 to 1. 50/50 ratio epoxies can NOT handle "fuel" over = time. That's bad news. Should I conclude from this that EZ-poxy (44-56 = by weight) will NOT handle fuel with ethanol? I assume when you say = "fuel" you mean fuel with ethanol, since experience has shown that = EZ-poxy has handled auto fuel for periods of 15 years in some EZs. Al G -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_003A_01C73E59.B3A45010 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Charlie Smith, who used to be on the = list but isn't=20 any more is an industrial chemist. He is building the same plane as I = am, and we=20 use the Aeropoxy system. As a test, I made up some samples (1" square = pieces of=20 fiberglass) and coated them with Jeffco 9700 FCR. He made up some = samples coated=20 with Aeropoxy. He then weighed them and then soaked them in 10 (or 15?)% = alcohol=20 in gasoline. The Jeffco samples did swell some and gain some weight, but = remained intact. The Aeropoxy samples flaked off and = disintegrated.
 
Our interpretation was that the Jeffco = coating is=20 fine, but we are still concerned about the joint where the wing skin is = bonded=20 on as the last step to closing the wing. That area is impossible to coat = with=20 the Jeffco. That bonding agent is a Hysol material that we have not = tested with=20 the alcohol.
Bill Schertz
KIS Cruiser # 4045
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 James=20 Maher
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 = 9:33=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = alcohol in=20 fuel

I used both the Aeropoxy and West Systems in the construction of = my=20 integral fuel tank.
I can now confirm that the tank has been severely deteriorated by = the use=20 of auto fuel, mostly in the last year or two since ethanol has been=20 added.
Jim
Dyke Delta N11XD

Dale Rogers <dale.r@cox.net> = wrote:
To=20 put a bit of perspective on this, one will be hard pressed to find a =
laminating epoxy that is in the 100:25 range, such as Al W=20 wrote.


E-Z Poxy  100:45 by weight

MGS 285/287 = (and=20 335)  100:45 by weight

Pro-Set 100:30 by = weight

AEROPOXY=20 is 100:27 by weight

ACSpruce's data on the West System = 105/205 spec=20 was "5:1"
which suggests it is a volume measurement, but it = doesn't have=20
the Rutan Blessing, last I knew.

IIRC, Perry Mick used = MGS 335=20 and runs auto fuel in his EZ.


Al Gietzen wrote:=20
Al W=20 wrote:
 
After flying for six years, finally = removed and=20 disassembled my glass and
foam header tank. During those six years = I=20 periodically used ethanol fuel
and whatever. Always used auto = fuel.  No=20 evidence of degradation of any
component....soft aluminum, foam, epoxy. = All looks=20 perfect.
 
That=92s good=20 news.
 
Just a reminder, all epoxy that is fuel = exposed=20 must be high ratio type.
Like 4 to 1.   50/50 ratio = epoxies can=20 NOT handle =93fuel=94 over time.
 
That=92s bad=20 news.  Should I conclude from this that EZ-poxy (44-56 by = weight)=20 will NOT handle fuel with ethanol?  I assume when you say = =93fuel=94 you=20 mean fuel with ethanol, since experience has shown that EZ-poxy = has=20 handled auto fuel for periods of 15 years in some = EZs.
 
Al=20 G
 

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