X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-SpamCatcher-Score: 1 [X] Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-04.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.103] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.4) with ESMTP id 1714724 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:55:26 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.103; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-100-190.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.100.190]) by ms-smtp-04.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kBQ0scHT014935 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:54:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003101c72888$72e65730$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Dead Rotor at 3000ft Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:54:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01C7285E.89C403F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C7285E.89C403F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, Tracy, I should have made it clearer that I was talking about = the crankangle sensor static timing set not the actually running = ignition timing. But, I believe that Joe was talking about the same = thing. As I recall your default ignition timing for the EC2 is around 25Deg = (assuming the static was set at 35DEG BTDC). I am running mine around = 30Deg for take off power- is that too much in your estimation?? If so, = what would you recommend. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 7:29 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Dead Rotor at 3000ft Keep in mind that Ed was talking about the crank sensor reference = timing which has nothing to do with actual ignition timing. Either 35 = or 45 would would be way too much ignition advance at full power for the = 13B. Tracy (having a Merry Christmas)=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Hull=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2006 12:00 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Dead Rotor at 3000ft Thanx Ed. I'll double check but pretty sure I'm at 35.=20 =20 Have a very, very Merry Christmas too! (hoping the spouse and others = gift you with many aviation toys!) =20 Joe =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 8:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Dead Rotor at 3000ft =20 Joe, Sorry to hear about your problem but glad to hear you brought = her back safely. Does certainly appear you have a bad apex seal. You = might want to check your ignition timing. I once mistakenly (of course = - who would to it intentionally {:>)) sat my static timing to 45 deg = rather than 35. I noticed while flying that If I opened up the throttle = wide open the note of the exhaust changed to a staccato popping. Well = did not fortunately lose an apex seal but I found the center electrode = ceramic cone was missing for two of the 4 plugs and cracked on the other = two. Just lucky they didn't take out the apex seal. So you might check = that timing just to be certain. =20 "Merry Christmas"? =20 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Joe Hull=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:15 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Dead Rotor at 3000ft =20 The weather today in the Seattle area was marginal for flying - = but a nice hole opened around my home airport (KAWO) and I was there = tinkering with the plane anyway (re-torqueing the prop)- so up I went. I = did 4 touch and goes just for a wee bit of practice and then departed = the pattern toward a bigger hole that would be legal to climb through = VFR. I flew about 30 miles northwest of the airport out to the edge of = the Puget Sound and enjoyed just being in the air. Power setting was = about 4400RPM and I was loping along at a lazy 135kts. I turned around = and headed back for Arlington and decided to ramp up the power to = ramming speed - errr I mean cruising speed. In a few minutes I was = cruising along at 170kts at about 5500RPM. Then all of a sudden BAM - = the engine stumbled and RPM's dropped to 2300RPM. I immediately = throttled back and switched tanks while turning toward the airport. = Altitude was 3200FT (about 3000AGL) and I was maybe 7 miles from the = airport. The engine was running real rough and wouldn't give me more = than 2300RPM. Even with that little bit of power I ended up entering the = 45 to the pattern at about 800 above pattern altitude. It was pretty = slow at the airport so I easily made a normal landing and was able to = taxi back to the hanger under power.=20 =20 At the hangar I double checked everything I could from the cockpit = - fuel pressure good at 36PSI, oil pressure good at 55PSI at 2300 RPM, = MicroTech ECM showed "OK" for the size major areas it monitors. So, I = shut it down and pulled the cowl. I pulled the prop through a number of = times and it seemed that there was a couple places where I should have = been hearing a "pop" in the exhaust but didn't. I also notice that there = is a nice ding in the prop that is about an inch long - that wasn't = there when I left (remember I'm a pusher). =20 I got the engine compression gage and proceeded to take the spark = plug out of the front rotor - top - BR9EQ-14. Hmmm - I don't remember = there being a casing around the electrode - and why is that casing = sliding? Apparently the casing around the electrode broke somewhere = inside the sparkplug and into two halves long ways down the electrode. = Each half slides freely up and down the electrode and even sticks out a = little from the end. =20 I put the compression gage on and it looks like I get 30-30-70 = when I turn the engine over. I tried this several times and there is = definitely a couple of places where it only goes to 30. So I double = check the location of that ding in the prop - hmmm it's exactly even = with the bottom of the exhaust - right about where an apex seal would = come out. =20 I put two new BR9EQ-14's in both rotors and did a quick run - = 2300RPM rough is the best I could get. =20 Some time this week I'll go up and yank the exhaust so I can see = the apex seals - my guess is I'm missing at least one. Bummer.=20 =20 Joe Hull (getting tired of little surprises in the air). Redmond/Seattle WA, Cozy-Mazda Rotary 71hrs =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C7285E.89C403F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, Tracy,  I should have made = it clearer=20 that I was talking about the crankangle sensor static timing set not the = actually running ignition timing.  But, I believe that Joe was = talking=20 about the same thing.
 
As I recall your default ignition = timing for the=20 EC2 is around 25Deg (assuming the static was set at 35DEG BTDC).  I = am=20 running mine around 30Deg for take off power- is that too much in your=20 estimation??  If so, what would you recommend.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy = Crook
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 = 7:29=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Dead = Rotor at=20 3000ft

Keep in mind that Ed was talking about the crank sensor reference = timing=20 which has nothing to do with actual ignition timing.  Either =  35 or=20 45 would would be way too much ignition advance at full power for = the=20 13B.
 
Tracy  (having a Merry Christmas) 
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe=20 Hull
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, December 24, = 2006 12:00=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Dead = Rotor at=20 3000ft

Thanx Ed. = I'll=20 double check but pretty sure I'm at 35. =

 

Have a = very, very=20 Merry Christmas too! (hoping the spouse and others gift you with = many=20 aviation toys!)

 

Joe

 

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed = Anderson
Sent: Saturday, December 23, = 2006 8:31=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Dead Rotor at = 3000ft

 

Joe, Sorry to hear = about your=20 problem but glad to hear you brought her back safely.  Does = certainly=20 appear you have a bad apex seal.  You might want to check your = ignition=20 timing.  I once mistakenly (of course - who would to it = intentionally=20 {:>)) sat my static timing to 45 deg rather than 35.  I = noticed=20 while flying that If I opened up the throttle wide open the note of = the=20 exhaust changed to a staccato popping.  Well did not = fortunately lose=20 an apex seal but I found the center electrode ceramic cone was = missing for=20 two of the 4 plugs and cracked on the other two.  Just lucky = they=20 didn't take out the apex seal.  So you might check that timing = just to=20 be certain.

 

"Merry=20 Christmas"?

 

Ed

----- Original = Message -----=20

From: Joe=20 Hull

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent:=20 Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:15 = PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Dead Rotor at = 3000ft

 

The weather today in = the=20 Seattle area was marginal for flying - but a nice hole opened = around my=20 home airport (KAWO) and I was there tinkering with the plane = anyway=20 (re-torqueing the prop)- so up I went. I did 4 touch and goes just = for a=20 wee bit of practice and then departed the pattern toward a bigger = hole=20 that would be legal to climb through VFR. I flew about 30 miles = northwest=20 of the airport out to the edge of the Puget = Sound and enjoyed just being in the air. Power setting = was=20 about 4400RPM and I was loping along at a lazy 135kts.  I = turned=20 around and headed back for Arlington and decided to ramp = up the=20 power to ramming speed - errr I mean cruising speed. In a few = minutes I=20 was cruising along at 170kts at about 5500RPM. Then all of a = sudden BAM -=20 the engine stumbled and RPM's dropped to 2300RPM.  I = immediately=20 throttled back and switched tanks while turning toward the = airport.=20 Altitude was 3200FT (about 3000AGL) and I was maybe 7 miles from = the=20 airport. The engine was running real rough and wouldn't give me = more than=20 2300RPM. Even with that little bit of power I ended up entering = the 45 to=20 the pattern at about 800 above pattern altitude. It was pretty = slow at the=20 airport so I easily made a normal landing and was able to taxi = back to the=20 hanger under power.

 

At the hangar I = double checked=20 everything I could from the cockpit - fuel pressure good at 36PSI, = oil=20 pressure good at 55PSI at 2300 RPM, MicroTech ECM showed "OK" for = the size=20 major areas it monitors. So, I shut it down and pulled the cowl. I = pulled=20 the prop through a number of times and it seemed that there was a = couple=20 places where I should have been hearing a "pop" in the exhaust but = didn't.=20 I also notice that there is a nice ding in the prop that is about = an inch=20 long - that wasn't there when I left (remember I'm a=20 pusher).

 

I got the engine = compression=20 gage and proceeded to take the spark plug out of the front rotor - = top -=20 BR9EQ-14. Hmmm - I don't remember there being a casing around the=20 electrode - and why is that casing sliding?  Apparently the = casing=20 around the electrode broke somewhere inside the sparkplug and into = two=20 halves long ways down the electrode. Each half slides freely up = and down=20 the electrode and even sticks out a little from the=20 end.

 

I put the = compression gage on=20 and it looks like I get 30-30-70 when I turn the engine over. I = tried this=20 several times and there is definitely a couple of places where it = only=20 goes to 30. So I double check the location of that ding in the = prop - hmmm=20 it's exactly even with the bottom of the exhaust - right about = where an=20 apex seal would come out.

 

I put two new = BR9EQ-14's in=20 both rotors and did a quick run - 2300RPM rough is the best I = could=20 get.

 

Some time this week = I'll go up=20 and yank the exhaust so I can see the apex seals - my guess is I'm = missing=20 at least one. Bummer.

 

Joe Hull (getting = tired of=20 little surprises in the air).

Redmond/Seattle WA, = Cozy-Mazda=20 Rotary 71hrs

 

--
Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:  =20 = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/

= ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01C7285E.89C403F0--